I don't follow a training plan. I follow a no plan plan where every day I just listen to my body and that determines what kind of miles I do or what sort of pace I do or hills or no hills. So oftentimes when I leave my house I don't even know where I'm going and just sort of of let my feet and my legs and my brain decide based on how tired or how fresh each of those things feels. Before we get started with this week's podcast, are you looking to upgrade your self-care routine? Do what Don and I did. We made the switch to native. If you're putting aluminum underneath your arm for a deodorant, stop and use native because they don't use aluminum. What they use, they use ingredients that you've actually heard of like coconut oil and shea butter. Switching to native from an antiperspirant doesn't mean you have to worry about the mid-day bio smell either. This stuff works with great sense like coconut vanilla, citrus and herbal musk, or maybe even lavender and rose. So join those that have tried it and use it. 16,500 reviews. You can get 20% off your first order if you go to native DO. That's D-E-O, nativedo.com slash trail, or use the promo code trail at checkout. Ladies and gentlemen of the wide worldwide out to running community, you are listening to nothing less than the greatest trail running nation podcast on earth. It is the trail runner nation podcast. So I but I know it's on the upper edge and you guys have won a couple of awards and

just because the facts aren't accurate. Don't worry about it. This is a podcast. This isn't, we don't even have a letter box. Nobody's gonna write us. We didn't, we don't even know where it is. I started to, to question myself, maybe I'm a badminton player and not a runner. Thanks for joining another edition of Trail Runner Nation.

My name is Scott War and I'm Don Freeman today. and not a runner. Thanks for joining another edition of Trail Runner Nation.

My name is Scott War.

And I'm Don Freeman.

Today, it's an out and back Scott.

This is a, these stories you may have heard before,

like most trail stories when you're running with your buddy

who go, you know what, I already heard that one before.

You may have heard this one before

if you've gone back and listened to the library

of Trail Runner Nation episodes. It's one of our favorite. We scrolled through all of them and we pulled out some of the ones that we love listening to ourselves. This first one is with Courtney DeWalter, where she talks about intuitive training and oh what a great philosophy she has. You know when am I taking away and I can remember back giving and talking on this podcast and it was about she goes out on a run and she just feels the distance after she gets out there. She early turn, long turn, she doesn't know but she figures it out along the way, prepared for anything. We hope you enjoy this encore presentation of Trail Runner Nation. Ooh,core. That's nice. Hey guys, welcome to another Trail Runner Nation episode. We're with Andy Jones Wilkins and the two masterminds behind it all. I'm Don Freeman and Mattis Scott-War. And that was an introduction by Courtney Dualter, who is joining from from lovely Colorado, Golden Colorado. And golden maybe because she has a golden ticket in her hand right now. Congratulations to that, Courtney. Went out to Sean O'Brien and found your way into Western States 2018. Congratulations. Oh, thank you so much. Now I need any wisdom that anyone's got for me. So I'm curious I know you were going out there to try to get that golden ticket but was western states your a race for this year or now that you have the golden ticket in your end western states do things shuffle around a little bit. The hope for the year was to get into Western states and get to experience an amazing 100 mile race with some incredible people. So that's been the goal since I mean late last fall probably. It was like starting to spin the gears and thinking about if I can make it happen or not and I feel really lucky that that I'll get to the line there. Well if we only had someone on this call that knew a little something about Western AJW. I think this is your turn to talk. Hey Courtney, I gotta ask I mean this is a far in it This is some advanced planning for you I mean, you still have like four and a half months.

So, you know have you like four and a half months so you know you got probably six or seven races you can do between now and that I Know totally thrown off my game Hey, I just want to let everybody know if they don't know who Courtney is she has won The last six races that she has started. Ooh and those six, she won, but of those six, three of them, she won outright. And in addition to those three, she's also outright one, seven additional races. So 10 of the races she's raced, she's been the number one person through the finish line. You know,'s my number one every time that she's out there. I think she's a fantastic runner. I remember I will tell the short story of Moab when she was completing the race and I had a hundred miles left. I knew right there that this she was something special. You didn't take any short cuts did you Courtney? No, no definitely not. So So hey, let's talk a little bit about Western states. We had a lot on our plate for today. But with respect to Western states, like a lot of the running you've done in the last 18 months, since you sort of burst on the scene has really, really shown off a great amount of versatility, really great efforts on the track and in timed events and so forth. And then, you know, more recently in some of these long mountainous events like Moab and, you know, some shorter distance stuff, you know, Western states really is a nice blending of those things. I mean, it's a very runnable course. The trail's an incredible condition. I mean, they're definitely parts of it. They feel like you're running on a road. so smooth, you know know, with some burst of vertical and some steep here. So it does play into a runner who can, who's a runner's runner who can run fast, but can also make a quick time on the, on the, on the climbs, particularly in the, in the middle of the course. So as you, as you've sort of evolved, especially in the last 18 months, how do you blend your training between the flat fast stuff and the sort of steep hilly stuff? I mean, yeah, I could just listen to you talk about Western states for an hour if we want to and spill any of those tidbits up for me. But I think they all feed into each other. So for 24 hour racing, I don't go and do long runs on a track to train for it, even though those races are held on tracks oftentimes. But I think just like long days out on trails or roads or bike paths all help the other type of racing. So I'm gonna be, yeah, looking for any advice and trying to learn a little bit more about the course and then just hoping to show up in my best physical and mental form for the race and see what happens. So there's several things, well I'm thinking of three in particular that are characteristic of Western states that I'd like to sort of just pick off. And the first one's the level of competition. Just a quick look, sort of back of the envelope for me. I see about 20 women that are currently in the field. And there's still half dozen more spaces that are going to be presented as gold and tickets. And those 20 women would be a chance of top five to top seven. And it's a blend of very experienced Western states people, a couple people who've done really well in the last year or two, a couple people who haven't done Western states yet, but have great you know, pedigree and have had success in the last 18 months, sort of the bucket that you're in. And I know knowing a little bit about your history, how have you performed in the sort of crucible of competition in international races? And does it have any different mental impact on you than a race where you simply blow away the field by several hours. Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think the best example I have so far is the World Championships for the 24-hour race which did not go well for me. So I will be trying to not have that one in the forefront of my mind. And I have so much respect for, I mean, everyone towing the line at 100 mile race, but the women's field at Western states is some people that I think are like the most amazing athletes. And I will be looking to them for kind of watching their examples, you know, and see how to do it. And that's really one of the most fun things about the race for my experience there is that it really is, you know, it's a competitive crucible for sure, but everybody's there sort of with and for each other. Okay, so the next item, how about, how about, and you know, you've done some, how do you do in the heat? I mean, there's no, there's no denying the fact that's gonna, you know, western states always brings the heat. I mean, even in a benign year, you know, it's gonna be 90 degrees and in the real intense years, it's gonna be 110, 115. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna knock on wood so far, have done okay in the heat, but this will be a whole different animal and we'll be going into it with that. Definitely as something like a factor to keep in mind in the training and then just on race day. Like that's a variable that I've got to handle like everyone else out there. So then my last one and then I'll let these guys start talking to everybody. Nobody's got a good AJW. So the big three, there's sort of the big three of Western state success. The being able to handle the crucible of competition, knowing your way around heat, and whether you've had success in the heat or not, but training for the heat and knowing that it's gonna be hot. And then the third one is course knowledge. And you're not gonna have the same course knowledge that Megan Laws has, she lives in cool and so on and so forth. But have you thought at all about making a trip making a trip out there to get to know the course a little bit, maybe in, you know, April or May? Yeah, I think it would be really cool. I haven't firmed anything up yet, but I'm aware that that would be definitely an advantage to see some of those sections. Yeah, I mean, you are such a like free flow runner, and which is awesome. And I guess in the interest of advice, you can still free flow western states knowing a little bit about the course, particularly when the three things converge, okay, there's there's five women within five minutes of one another

It's 110 degrees and the four of them actually know what's coming up and I don't you know that can that can be the kind of thing that that can Wear on you mentally whereas if you could say oh, yeah I remember when we did this back in May when I did the training run with bloody blah and and, uh, and boy, uh, now I know what's coming and so I'm not afraid of it.

So do you do you ever think that ignorance is bliss in those kinds of things? I do and but it reminds me of Matt Carpenter with Leadville where he ran it in 2004. His quads were trashed. He ended up walking it in And he decided at that point that he didn't want to see the course at all between 2005 and when he got to the race in 2010, because he wanted it to be fresh. He didn't want it to be. And so certainly that's the kind of thing, depending on your personality or temperament, that you might want to ask yourself. Because yeah, absolutely, there's something so exciting where it's like, oh this is Michigan bluff. There are absolutely examples of people who've gone to western states and done well site unseen. There's no doubt about that. So you know it rewards most of all it rewards patients and coming there with the right attitude, you know, making the day as fun as it can be. Yeah. Well, I might be emailing you with any questions that I might have. I know you're quite experienced on the course. Well, I've never had a conversation about Western states that I didn't enjoy. And he knows every inch of that course from a spreadsheet to actually being on the court. On his knees at times, even. Hey, now, now, now, Kourtney, you might notice that the level of questions might drop off here a bit. Do you have a dog? No, it's got. I do not have a dog. Go ahead. I'll explain the joke you're livin' it's got. I'll draw a picture. Okay, I need the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym.

I'm not going to go to the gym.

I'm not going to go to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym. I'm not going to go to the gym. take two of the podcast we started a couple weeks ago and one of the things that came up that

I think would be very interesting to dig into a little bit is how Courtney you train. I think it's very unique for this day and age where we have all these gadgets that can track us, strov training plans and all that sort of stuff. Can you tell us a little bit about how, let's take this for example,

training plans, Western, Western states, Western states.

How are you going to train for Western states?

Do you have spreadsheets, wallpapering your kitchen?

Or how are you, how are you going to do it?

...