Inside the ‘crazy grid’: why the future of energy needs everything, everywhere, all at once
The Energy Gang
Wood Mackenzie
4.6 • 1.3K Ratings
🗓️ 8 July 2025
⏱️ 73 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Building out the electricity grid was traditionally a predictable and straightforward business. Now it’s like trying to land a jet on a moving aircraft carrier in the dark. That’s a quote from this week’s guest Quinn Nakayama. He’s the senior director of Grid Research and Innovation at Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E). He joins host Ed Crooks and regular guest Amy Myers Jaffe to discuss how California is dealing with all the uncertainty created by new demands being placed on the grid: variable renewable generation, electric vehicles, data centers, and more.
Quinn refers to the fast-changing electricity system of today as the ‘crazy grid’, because so many things are happening at once. Wind and solar power create new challenges for grid stability, while batteries and demand response offer new solutions. Electric vehicles, following mandates from the state of California and other governments around the world, create new patterns of electricity consumption. The latest breakthroughs in AI are creating a surge in power demand from data centers. And those advances in AI are also opening up new possibilities for grid management.
Planning is harder than ever. Are Virtual Power Plants (VPPs) an important solution? Amy, Ed and Quinn debate their effectiveness; these tools are helpful, but they can't solve everything. Large loads such as data centers still need major upgrades to wires and substations. But with a high penetration of electric vehicles, California is working on smart tech that makes it easier to install EV chargers without expensive upgrades. PG&E is also exploring faster ways to connect large users, such as allowing temporary solutions until new lines are built.
Despite the range of innovations that are available, and the exciting rate of progress in new technologies, the US risks falling behind other countries. Quinn and Amy warn that cuts in support for clean energy and EVs could lead to the US losing out to China, which is investing heavily in these technologies. The Reconciliation Bill that was signed into law last week included abrupt curtailments of tax credits for wind and solar power. So what is the right way forward for the grid? For the electricity system to meet the fast-evolving demands of the modern world, it needs everything: more energy, more flexibility, and faster action.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hey, you know, there's a space race. Love to get to Mars. The entire world is ratcheting up their investments to get to Mars. Meanwhile, we're like, you know what? We're going to give up that and we're just going to dig underneath the ground. Like, how do we maintain our national competitiveness in this and support the necessary components that help EVs make more successful? |
| 0:21.0 | Imagine if the United States decided it's cheaper and easier for everyone to go back to analog |
| 0:26.9 | phones in their homes. |
| 0:28.5 | So we're just going to put telephone booths out again. |
| 0:31.6 | Would anybody else at any other country in the world stop making apps and programs for |
| 0:35.9 | smartphones? |
| 0:36.4 | No. |
| 0:48.0 | Hello and welcome to the energy gang, a discussion show from Wood McKenzie about the fast-changing world of energy. I'm Ed Crooks. And today we're going to be talking about what's been |
| 0:53.0 | called the Crazy Grid. I'll be explaining what that means and we'll be talking about what's been called the Crazy Grid. |
| 0:55.5 | I'll be explaining what that means and we'll be talking about how we can overcome its challenges |
| 0:59.1 | to deliver the energy system we need for the modern world. |
| 1:02.6 | And to talk about that Crazy Grid, it's a great pleasure to welcome back one of our favorite grid experts, Quinn Nakayama. |
| 1:08.7 | Quinn is the Senior Director of Grid Research, Innovation and Deployment, |
| 1:12.1 | GRID, at the Pacific Gas and Electric Company, PG&E, based in Oakland, California. Hi, Quinn, how are you? |
| 1:18.6 | Good. I mean, as good as it can be, you know, my kids get out of school today, so I'm looking forward |
| 1:24.2 | to my productivity level dropping by like 12.27%. |
| 1:28.1 | Indeed. I know the feeling these American summers are very long, aren't they? |
| 1:32.1 | When you're a parent. |
| 1:33.8 | Summer camps suck. |
| 1:35.1 | Yes. But on the other hand, it goes by so fast, doesn't it? As Amy, you'll know, we're also joined by Amy Myers-Jaffee. |
| 1:42.5 | Amy is the director of the Energy, Climate Justice and Sustainability Lab at New York University. |
| 1:47.3 | Hi, Amy. |
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