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Bankless

Inside Gary Gensler’s SEC: A Conversation with Former Crypto Policy Advisor Corey Frayer

Bankless

[email protected]

Tech News, News, Technology

4.81.1K Ratings

🗓️ 8 December 2025

⏱️ 113 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What was really happening inside the SEC during the Gensler years? Today, we sat down with Corey Frayer, former senior crypto policy advisor to SEC Chair Gary Gensler and now Director of Investor Protection at the Consumer Federation of America. We dig into how the agency thought about securities law, DeFi, Uniswap, stablecoins, SAB 121, and why platforms like Coinbase and Kraken ended up in the crosshairs. Corey defends the Gensler playbook while responding to the industry’s harshest criticisms, from “regulation by enforcement” to claims of a political war on crypto.  Corey Frayer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/corey-frayer-990a6b2  ------ 🎬 DEBRIEF | RYAN & DAVID UNPACKING THE EPISODE https://www.bankless.com/podcast/debrief-inside-gary-genslers-sec  ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔵COINBASE | ETH & BTC BACKED LOANS https://bankless.cc/coinbase-borrow 🪙FRAXNET | MINT, REDEEM, & EARN  https://bankless.cc/fraxnet 🦄UNISWAP | SWAP ON UNICHAIN https://bankless.cc/unichain 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR L2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle 💤EIGHT SLEEP | IMPROVE YOUR SLEEP https://bankless.cc/eight-sleep ------ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro 4:58 Crypto Industry Misconceptions 7:59 Corey’s Role & Background 14:20 How it All Started 24:16 No Path to Register? 31:26 Technology vs Economic Activity 38:22 Protecting Investors 41:07 DeFi Regulation 44:53 Uniswap’s Wells Notice 57:00 Fake DeFi vs True DeFi 1:03:41 Google Analogy 1:08:35 The Howey Test 1:16:53 SEC: Good or Evil? 1:26:52 GENIUS Bill 1:29:10 SAB 121 1:33:01 Crypto & SEC Political Impact 1:36:02 Paul Atkin’s SEC 1:38:15 What Would Corey Change? 1:41:23 Gary’s Text Messages 1:43:10 Is ETH a Security? 1:44:39 Gary Gensler’s Radio Silence 1:47:37 Gary’s Twitter April Fools PFP 1:50:44 Closing & Disclaimers ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0

When crypto starts coming into the traditional space and doing the traditional activities,

0:06.1

to me, it loses the protection of the argument that this is a distinct technology built

0:14.2

for peer-to-peer transactions.

0:16.6

If that's what crypto wants to build, build it.

0:19.9

And I have no opinions on it. But if you're

0:22.6

going to build a bank, if you're going to build a securities exchange, if you're going to raise

0:26.9

money the way the Howie test lies out, there are laws for that. Everyone has to follow the same

0:32.2

laws. Welcome to Bankless, where we explore the frontier of internet money and internet finance.

0:41.3

This is Ryan Sean Adams. I'm here with David Hoffman, and we're here to help you become more bankless.

0:46.5

Guys, we get a peek inside the Gary Gensler administration, inside the SEC.

0:51.1

This is a conversation with the guy that formed senior crypto policy advisor.

0:56.6

And David and I, over almost two hours, got to ask him just about every question we had in

1:02.2

our minds. I never thought we'd have the opportunity to do this. No. And I want to give credit to

1:08.0

our guest, Corey Freyer, for being pretty much an open book with respect to what

1:14.2

questions we asked and which ones he answered. So this was a pretty unique episode, I think,

1:20.6

and above and beyond what I expected. Yeah, we have to do a debrief on this, Ryan. So that's

1:25.6

what we're going to go record right now because I have some thoughts, and I know you've got some thoughts. And so for all the bank list premium subscribers out there, there is a debrief from Ryan and David in your premium for you to go listen to that if you want to hear our unadulterated thoughts about what Corey said about Gary Gensors at C. All right, guys, let's get right to the episode.

1:44.6

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