Hello, my name is David Ronserman and this is Talking Politics. We have been hoping for

quite a while to talk to Hillary Mantell about Thomas Cromwell and Power in the Court of

Henry VIII. It's not possible at the moment, but Helen Thompson and I both each just read

the final volume of her magnificent trilogy about Cromwell. We are passionate about it and

we want to talk about it anyway. That's what lockdown is for.

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Helen, we were you in London, me in Cambridge, reading this book at roughly the same time

and occasionally, corresponding by text about it and to be honest about how much we both

loved it. There are lots of things to talk about and we'll get onto them. More talking

politics-ish themes like the nature of power and what it means. But just remind me why

you love it so much. One thing is that I've always been interested in Thomas Cromwell as

a character, as a political phenomenon and as a human phenomenon. That's probably why

I started reading the first book, Wolf Hall, which I have to say at the time I quite liked

but didn't absolutely love. I think as it's gone on and as the country has gone on in

its politics since Wolf Hall was published, I've come to love it in the end as a meditation

on English history and all the things that she brings to bear about that political spiritual

...