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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Imagine a future with no police

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.610.8K Ratings

🗓️ 20 January 2022

⏱️ 66 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with author, lawyer, and organizer Derecka Purnell about her recent book Becoming Abolitionists. They discuss Derecka's journey to defending the idea of police abolition, and what that position really entails. They explore questions about the historical and social role of policing in society, how to imagine a future where we radically rethink our system of criminal justice, and how we can acknowledge and incorporate current data about crime—while still rethinking our inherited assumptions about police. Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), reporter, Vox Guests: Derecka Purnell (@dereckapurnell), author References: Becoming Abolitionists: Police, Protests, and the Pursuit of Freedom by Derecka Purnell (Astra House; 2021) The Black Jacobins: Toussaint L'Ouverture and the San Domingo Revolution by C.L.R. James (Vintage; 1989) Black Reconstruction in America 1860–1880 by W.E.B. Du Bois (1935) "One American city's model of policing reform means building 'social currency'" by Nathan Layne (June 12, 2020; Reuters) "The Camden Police Department is Not a Model for Policing in the Post-George Floyd Era" by Brendan McQuade (June 12, 2020; The Appeal) "Murder Rose by Almost 30% in 2020. It's Rising at a Slower Rate in 2021" by Jeff Asher (Sept. 22, 2021; New York Times) Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app. Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by: Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:42.0

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0:58.0

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1:05.0

What do we really feel more safe in a world without police?

1:12.0

I'm Fabio Sinias and I write for Vox about race and policy.

1:19.0

And today I'm your host for Vox Conversations.

1:24.0

Growing up, I never really thought about the police. But they were a pretty big part of my life.

1:38.0

I usually couldn't walk to the grocery store in my central Brooklyn neighborhood without passing several NYPD squad cars in advance.

1:47.0

I couldn't go to school without greeting the dozens of officers in my school buildings, lobby, or hallways. On the surface, I trusted the police. They were there to keep us safe.

1:58.0

My neighborhood was deemed quote unquote bad. And of course, the police were there to make it good.

2:06.0

But subconsciously, I always felt like there was more going on. Like why were many of my friends stopped and searched when they were just trying to go about their day?

2:16.0

Why did we sometimes go to great lengths to avoid having to interact with police officers?

2:22.0

And even though there was a precinct nearby and countless officers lining our streets, why did we still feel unsafe?

2:32.0

It wasn't until activists on social media started calling attention to the repeated police killings of unarmed black Americans that I started to question the role of the police.

2:43.0

How was it that the deaths of so many unarmed civilians at the hands of police didn't prompt leaders to implement institutional change?

2:52.0

Then came 2020.

...

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