But prior to that, I had asked him a question, which was if he thought it was possible,

that a gold medal at the Olympics could be won without performance enhancing drugs.

And he takes his paws and he goes, I try to believe, I should believe, I want to believe,

but I don't believe gold medal can be won without performance enhancing drugs.

They take this long pause and I'll never forget this and he goes, I don't know, maybe I'm a bad man.

That point I wasn't quite sure what to make of that, but it certainly set up my next question,

which was, will you help me dope?

I'm Sean Fennesy, Editor-in-Chief of the Ringer, and this is the big picture,

a conversation show with some of the world's most fascinating filmmakers.

The Winter Olympics are here, but you know who isn't? Russia.

In December, the International Olympic Committee banned the country's athletes from competing

in the Games in Pyongchang for State's Bonser Doping. My guest today can claim some of the credit

for that. Brian Fogel is the director of a movie called Icarus, it's a nominee for Best

Documentary next month's Oscar ceremony. Fogel is an amateur cyclist who set out on a personal

journey into the world of blood-doping that shockingly transformed into a story with world-changing

consequences. And it happened because Fogel met a man named Gregory Rudchenkov, the former director

of Russia's anti-doping laboratory. Fogel and Rudchenkov form a fascinating bond throughout the film

that ultimately reveals how a nation conspired to cheat. I talked with Fogel about the difficulties

of making his film, his unlikely friendship with Lance Armstrong, and whether or not he thinks the

athletes competing in this month's Olympic Games are clean. Here's my conversation with Brian Fogel.

I'm joined by Academy Award nominee Brian Fogel, a creator director of the fascinating

documentary Icarus, Brian. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. That is the first time that

...