Ibram X. Kendi vs. America’s “Antiracism Backlash”
Reveal
The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX
4.7 • 8K Ratings
🗓️ 23 July 2025
⏱️ 27 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Just a few years ago, historian and activist Dr. Ibram X. Kendi seemed to be everywhere. At the height of the Black Lives Matter movement, Kendi became one of the leading voices on racism in America—and particularly what he described as antiracism. But over the last few years, as a backlash grew against the BLM movement, Kendi also came under attack. His ideas urging people to be actively antiracist were often the target of conservative critics fighting against DEI policies and the teaching of critical race theory. Kendi was also accused of mismanaging an antiracism center at Boston University, which laid off much of its staff before closing last month (BU cleared Kendi of financial mismanagement.) On this week’s More To The Story, Kendi responds to the criticism he faced at BU, argues that the Trump administration’s policies are harming both white and Black Americans, and discusses Malcolm Lives!, his new book for young readers about Malcolm X.
Producer: Josh Sanburn with help from Zulema Cobb and Julia Haney | Editor: Kara McGuirk-Allison | Theme music: Fernando Arruda and Jim Briggs | Digital producer: Nikki Frick | Deputy Executive Producer: Taki Telonidis | Executive producer: Brett Myers | Executive editor: James West | Host: Al Letson
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Listen: Black in the Sunshine State (Reveal)
Read: I’m Racist. You’re Racist. We’re All Racist. Here’s How to Fix It. (Mother Jones)
Read: Ibram X. Kendi Introduces Malcolm X to a New Generation (The New York Times)
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| 0:00.0 | Ultimately, we should be striving to be anti-racist, which is to say we should be actively seeking to confront the structure of racism while recognizing that if we do nothing in the face of the status quo of racial inequity, then that racial inequity and injustice will persist. |
| 0:27.3 | Coming up on more to the story, Dr. Ibram X. Kendi, author of the popular book, How to Be an anti-racist, joins me to talk about the persistence of racial inequality, his upcoming work with Howard |
| 0:33.1 | University, and sharing the story of Malcolm X with young readers. Don't go anywhere. |
| 0:52.6 | This is more to the story. I'm Al-Letton. It was just a few years ago when Dr. Ibram X. Kendi |
| 0:58.8 | seemed to be everywhere. At the height of the Black Lives Matter movement, Kendi became a sought-after |
| 1:05.0 | voice on racism and particularly anti-racism. But as a backlash grew over DEI initiatives and critical race theory, |
| 1:13.3 | the movement itself came under attack, and so did Kendi. |
| 1:16.8 | In particular, he was accused of financially mismanaging an anti-racism center he founded |
| 1:22.4 | at Boston University, which raised $55 million, but closed his doors last month. |
| 1:29.1 | He was cleared by the University of any wrongdoing. |
| 1:32.3 | Later this year, Kendi will head up another academic project, this time at Howard University, |
| 1:37.8 | and he's responding to some of the criticism he's faced head on. |
| 1:41.8 | Dr. Kendi, how are you doing? |
| 1:43.8 | I'm well. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm really excited to talk to you. Thank you for having me. So I was first introduced to your work when I read your 2019 book, How to Be an Anti-Racist. Now, I had never heard that term anti-racist before. It was a new way of looking at how to address racism. For those who haven't had a chance to read it, |
| 2:02.6 | what does it mean to be an anti-racist before. It was a new way of looking at how to address racism. For those who haven't had a chance to read it, what does it mean to be an anti-racist? Well, the book and what I try to show |
| 2:09.7 | through my research is that the true opposite of racist is not not racist. |
| 2:18.3 | It is anti-racist. |
| 2:20.3 | That historically, and even in our moment, |
| 2:23.3 | typically people who self-identify as not racist, |
| 2:29.3 | they do so largely after they just did or said something that was racist. It's also the case that |
| 2:38.2 | the term not racist is a term that's widely used without a definition. So I actually have |
| 2:43.8 | yet to see somebody actually define clearly what it means to be not racist. And then thirdly, the reason why anti-racist is the true opposite of racist is because most people |
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