‘I Have No Idea How This Ends. I’ve Never Seen It So Broken.’

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 19 January 2024

⏱️ 68 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

It’s been just over 100 days since Hamas’s attack on Israel, and the costs of the war are staggering. In polling from late fall, 64 percent of Gazans reported that a family member had been killed or injured. Nearly two million Gazans — almost the entire population — have been displaced from their homes, and analysis of satellite imagery reveals that about half the buildings in the Gaza Strip have probably been destroyed or damaged. Israel believes that more than 100 hostages are being held captive in Gaza, and polling reveals that Hamas has gained popularity among Palestinians while support for Israel has plummeted around the world. When this war ends, will Israel really be safer? Who will govern Gaza? What will be left of Gaza? Thomas L. Friedman is a New York Times Opinion columnist and the author of “From Beirut to Jerusalem,” among other books. He has covered the Middle East for decades and won a Pulitzer for his reporting from Israel. And so I wanted to ask him: What does he think of where Israel is now, and what does he imagine comes next? Mentioned: Columnist Assistant application Thomas L. Friedman’s recent columns “‘Joe Biden May Be the Last Pro-Israel Democratic’” by Thomas L. Friedman Book Recommendations: The Little Drummer Girl by John Le Carré The Splendid and the Vile by Erik Larson I’m Your Man by Sylvie Simmons Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

Transcript

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0:00.0	From New York Times opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show. So before we begin today a bit of housekeeping we are hiring a column
0:27.4	assistant for me and trustee McMillan Cottam who's going to do fact-checking
0:31.3	research clerical work.
0:32.8	It's a great entry-level job at the times and you can find it by going to
0:35.8	NYU.com. slash careers, or we will have a link to it in the shownuts. So it has been a bit more than a hundred days since October 7th. A bit more than a
0:50.3	hundred days since Hamas attacked Israel. It has been almost 90 days since
0:54.8	Israel began its ground invasion of Gaza. Since then the Gaza Ministry of
0:59.6	health says more than 24,000 Gazans have died.
1:03.3	More than 60,000 have been injured.
1:05.8	About 10,000 of the dead are under age 18.
1:08.8	I know some object to using numbers from the Gazan Ministry of Health.
1:11.9	They say, well, that's Hamas. I think that's complicated. using numbers from the
1:13.0	from the
1:15.0	they say well that's Hamas I think that's complicated and I think those numbers have
1:16.0	broadly been viewed to be reasonable but here's if you don't trust them
1:19.2	another way of thinking about it.
1:21.0	There was a recent poll independent that asked Gazans if
1:24.8	any member of their family had been killed or injured since the attacks and
1:28.2	64% said yes they had 64% of Gazans in this poll said a member of their family
1:35.0	had been killed or injured.
1:37.0	We know nearly 2 million.
1:39.0	Gazans have been displaced from their homes.
	...

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