Well, hello and welcome to episode 13, that's right like you number 13, of I don't speak German, a podcast of which typically my buddy Jack Graham and I talk about the conversations of the far right, the dissident right, the alt right, white nationalists,

Nazi scum basically.

We gave Jack the weekend off this weekend and I actually am bringing on a special guest Samantha Cutner who describes herself as a proud boy

whisper and is an expert on Gavin McKenna's and the proud boys, which is something I am not much of an expert on. So Samantha, welcome to the podcast.

Hi, thank you for having me. So I am a researcher who studies violent extremism and the gender dynamics of

radicalization. I was approved to conduct ethnographic interviews

with members of the Proud Boys and anti-Fascist.

And I conducted the majority of my interviews while members were still on Facebook and

Twitter before their accounts were suspended in advance of the second Unite the Right rally.

Awesome. So how long have you been kind of studying these guys? I mean what's what's been the

kind of process of that? Well before studying the Proud ways I had studied foreign terrorism.

But after Charlottesville, I decided it was important to look how extremism and domestic terrorism operates from within our borders.

And so everybody saw Charlottesville and the Unite the Right rally,

and I noticed there was this one group that was claiming that they weren't really all right and the members who attended that event were not really proud boys or that they were former proud boys and they didn't represent the values of the group as a whole.

So rather than rely on what I had been reading in the news I decided it was important to ask members themselves

you know what is the reality of being a member do you see yourself as alt-right do you see yourself as a men's organization?

You know, in what ways is your experience different

from the ways that you've been depicted in the media?

And I'm sure they had plenty of opinions about that topic, but I don't know. They've worked to all pieces outside of their kind of closed media ecosystem as hit pieces.

Right, yeah. I mean it's all fake news unless it's you know like

fawningly positive to them. Yes and it conforms to their specific narrative.

It's all fake news and that's something obviously you see in all forms, in all parts of the

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