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Race isn't about black people, necessarily.

It's about the way in which whiteness works to disfigure and distort our democracy and the ideals that animate our democracy.

So we have to have a politics that can interrogate it honestly and do it in such a way that's mature, that opens up space for us to imagine ourselves otherwise.

Hello, welcome to the Glanchion on the Vox Media podcast network.

So there's an idea I've been trying to understand recently. Some of you directed me to more sociological literature on identity.

And one of the distinctions it makes is this distinction between an identity that you have and the process of identification.

What happens in us? What changes in us that we go from potentially having claim on an identity to actually making the identification, actually feeling like we are part of that identity?

Is that a process that we control? Is it a process that other people control the environment around us controls?

This is something that is hard to test, but it's worth thinking about because the question of identity politics isn't a static question.

It's about which identities and when do we choose to make those identifications such that that kind of politics becomes important such that it becomes important to us and such that it becomes important when we see it in others.

One of the people I want to talk to about this is Eddie Glad Jr. He is a scholar of African American studies at Princeton, author of a really remarkable book called Democracy in Black.

And just in general, a really sharp thinker on these issues. And I don't want to give away too much in this conversation, but I do urge you to listen to it with that distinction in mind.

There's a lot in here about the difference between having an identity and the conditions in which you begin to identify.

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