You're listening to How to Be a Better Human.

I'm your host, Chris Duffy.

This episode that you're about to hear is a really special one because we went out in

person to meet with today's guest, Bonnie Tsui.

She's the author of the books On Muscle and Why We Swim.

And I got to talk to her about exercise and strength and the surprising ways that

muscles affect all aspects of our lives.

But I didn't just talk to her. I went surfing with her and I did a humiliating workout and we

filmed the whole thing for a short film and video series that we made. I'm genuinely so thrilled

with how it turned out. I think it is so fun and so funny and really different than anything

else we've made. You can watch that video series now on Ted's YouTube channel.

So please check that out.

But first, listen to this episode.

Here's Bonnie.

You know, if you stopped 100 people on the street and asked them, what do you think of when you think of the word muscle?

I think there is a very specific kind of body stereotypically and a very particular kind of

person who gets to have that body. And oftentimes it's someone who's in the gym, someone is a bodybuilder,

someone who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? And I think that what I learned from the last several years of researching on muscle is that it goes so much deeper than that.

And that strength is something that also is very metaphorical.

And I couldn't help, but over the course of writing this book, start to think of muscle as a philosophy, where there are all these characteristics of muscle, the tangible stuff, right? So strength and form and, you know, action that it is the stuff that actually moves us and flexibility and endurance. And these are not just qualities

of muscle, but they are qualities that we strive for in personhood. And I think that's very

moving. That's very profound. And so to kind of like think about the body as not just this

...