How to Steal a Presidential Election

The Lawfare Podcast

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 4 March 2024

⏱️ 58 minutes

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Summary

As the 2024 presidential election approaches, a vital question is whether the legal architecture governing the election is well crafted to prevent corruption and abuse. In their new book, “How to Steal a Presidential Election,” Lawrence Lessig and Matthew Seligman argue that despite the Electoral Count Reform Act of 2022, serious abuse of the presidential election rules remains a live possibility. Jack Goldsmith sat down with Lessig to learn why. They discussed the continuing possibility of vice presidential mischief, the complex role of faithless electors, strategic behavior related to recounts, and the threat of rogue governors. They also pondered whether any system of rules can regulate elections in the face of widespread bad faith by the actors involved.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.0	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfair Podcast,
0:08.0	become a material supporter of Lawfair at Patreon.com slash Lawfair. That's Patreon.com
0:16.4	slash Lawfair. Also check out Lawfair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, lawfare no bull, and the aftermath.
0:30.0	I don't see any harm in alternative slates of electors meeting and voting.
0:37.0	As long as the process for determining whether their votes will be counted is contingent on them being
0:45.2	determined to be the winners in their state under state law as state law exists.
0:50.8	So if it's a recount process or you know in Wisconsin or in other states there were
0:55.0	challenges to the process for counting absentee ballots and those two should be
1:00.2	resolved and resolved fairly and if they're resolved fairly and they flip the
1:04.0	result one side to the other then those flipped results should be reflected in the
1:09.6	final count on January 6th but the Electoral Count Reform Act makes that harder without some very clever
1:16.3	interpretation and good faith on the other side to allow that clever interpretation to go forward.
1:21.1	I'm Jack Goldsmith and this is the Law Fair
1:24.3	podcast March 4th, 2024. As the 2024 presidential election approaches, a vital
1:32.2	question is whether the legal architecture governing the election
1:35.6	is well-crafted to prevent corruption and abuse.
1:39.5	In their new book, How to Steal a Presidential Election, Lawrence Lessig and Matthew Seligman argue that, despite the Electoral
1:47.4	Account Reform Act of 2022, serious abuse of the presidential election rules remains a live possibility.
1:55.2	I sat down with Leslie to learn why.
1:57.8	We discussed the continuing possibility of vice presidential mischief, the complex role of faithless electors, strategic behavior related to
2:05.6	recounts, and the threat of rogue governors.
	...

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