What up guys?

Alrighty, righty, righty? I am so freaking excited guys to bring you another episode with the freaking badass, my homie, Dr. Romani. Guys in addition to being one of my favorite, favorite people on the freaking planet, she's also a narcissist expert, a clinical psychologist and host of her new podcast, Navigating Nossusism. And today, guys, we're talking about ways to actually tell if someone is a narcissist, when you're on that first date, when you're first meeting them.

What are the... of her new podcast, Navigating Narsicism. And today, guys, we're talking about ways to actually tell if someone is a narcissist, when you're on that first date, when you're first meeting them, whether the questions that you can ask them, we also talk about how narcissists test and actually push your boundaries to find where your weaknesses are. If you enjoyed this conversation, please, please, do rate and review this podcast that would mean the world to me. That's honestly the best way that you guys can show your support. So go right now. Tell your homies. Tell them about women of impact. And so guys now let's actually get into the episode and let's talk about narcissism with Dr. Romani. Evil enters like a needle and spreads like an oak tree. So where I want to start is how on earth do we start to identify the needle so it doesn't penetrate? So what are the top five questions we can ask someone to figure out whether they are a renossist if they can answer the question or not? Yeah, so everyone wants the magic questions I can ask. If they're listening, those five questions existed, therapists would be using them all the time. You know, I tell people a couple of things when it comes to how do I figure out like again, that idea of evil entering like a needle is that it is so subtle, right? But part of it though, it's almost less of what the narcissist is doing and more of the story we're telling ourselves about what they are doing. So what I mean by that is this. If you, let's say you're mean a new person, okay? I have to be honest with you something I often ask people is I say, tell me the story of you. That's my, that's my opener. The other thing I ask people is how do you spend your days? I do that for a couple of reasons. Number one, not everyone is sort of traditionally employed and we

say, what do you do? Can feel shaming? So tell me how you spend your days. And they'll tell me, well, how they spend their days because they're often thrown off. They're expecting me to ask them a job. So there's two questions. Tell me the story of you. Tell me how you spend your days. Okay? You ask those two questions, you're going to get a lot of data. Pay attention.

The other thing you need to pay attention to, this third thing is not a question. It's how are you feeling in your body without exception? And you know at this point, I've talked to thousands of people who've been through narcissistic relationships. Every single one of them has said to me, it felt off to me. I just felt like a little uncomfortable, whatever it was, and I tried to talk myself out of that feeling. So it's that in a way it's almost an instinct. We had someone recently on my podcast who was talking about her meeting her deeply, malignantly, narcissistic husband, and she wasn't attracted to him and she thought the idea of kissing him in her words repulsed her. Her body was telling her something. But her therapist said, however, this guy actually is paying attention to you and he seems really nice. But there was something her body was saying, no, no, no, and then she listened to her therapist and sort of try to quiet those voices and ended up being quite a life-changing disaster for her. But our bodies do tell us something. And paying attention to that is really, really hard because we're kind of told, get along with everybody. But in asking those other questions, tell me the story of you, tell me how you spend your days. It's their different ways of answering that. Look for contempt. So if I were to turn up to someone and say, tell me the story of you, they'd be like, what do you mean? All right, for me, that's 10 red flags popping up. Oh, you're interesting. You know, because usually people will say, tell me about you or what do you do? Those are the questions people use to having.

And our statistic people love saying what they do because they're all that, even if they're lying about what they do. But when you put the questions in those sort of nontraditional ways, it's sort of interesting to see what kind of response you get back. And so they're giving you data not so much in their answers, but in almost their process and in their approach. So, but I'll be frank with you Lisa as a therapist.

We may have to spend three, four, or five, six sessions with a person before we're like, wait a minute. This is a narcissistic personality, and in theory, most therapists are trained to detect this. So, I think when we make it like, what are those questions I can ask, I think we set a unrealistic bar for people and then they say oh my gosh I guess you know I'm the fool who can figure this out but I'm like no you're not the fool it takes trained people a minute but the final piece is catch yourself in the story you're telling about this person right so a person you their story beats, even if they answer the story of them and the how they spend their days. And there's facts in there. I have my own business. I grew up in Michigan, whatever. Those are facts. And then there's the story you're starting to tell yourself, oh, this person's really cool. And, you know, I wonder, like, it sounds like they have a lot of possibility in their life.

And I have those shared interests.

Once you start putting your narrative over theirs, that's the other place where you might

start making mistakes.

Because then you're starting to try to make pieces fit.

So we almost have to take a little bit of responsibility to say what kind of story am I telling myself about this person? Oh my god that was so good okay I don't want to interrupt you but you said so many things I'd really love to touch on okay so the first one I was really surprised when you said about the like to ask them about this story because I thought that I have the understanding that Narsis love to talk about themselves so how is is that actually a sign? Like I was surprised that you said they'd get frustrated. They would get frustrated because they may not like the way that question is like tell me the story of you and that sort of they may roll their eyes at that in a way they should love that question because they're the ones who are always making up a story about themselves. I would say, you were asking me what are the questions you ask somewhat, right? There's no, you're not going to ask them, do you talk about yourself a lot? You've got to pay attention. And so in paying attention to what they have to say, you may notice like, oh, they're kind of going on and on and on. But I wish it was that simple is that they only talk about themselves. Because another thing that they may do is ask you very intrusive questions about you. Very early on, maybe not a first date, but early texting, early phone calls, something like that. They may say things like, what's your worst fear? And I'm always a little chilled when people say, they we sat on the phone for 10 hours the first time we met and I'm like, what did you told them about yourself? Because what narcissistic people are really skilled at is Learning everything about you so they can outplay you So if I sit here and I really want to outplay, I would

never be able to do this because I'm not wired for that, but if I really, if I

really, let's say something tactically, you know, I'm clever enough to say, okay, I'm gonna sit here. I'm gonna learn this person's vulnerabilities. I'm gonna learn their weaknesses. I'm gonna learn what matters to them. I'm gonna learn what they feel insecure about, and now I have the keys to the kingdom.

I can make this person do whatever the heck I want, but we read that as, oh, they're so

interested and curious about me.

So how do we, when this is a discussion we have a lot like, where's that fine line between someone really is interested in you and because the last thing you want is for someone to dismiss them when someone's actually being sweet and kind and generous and like really curious about something, I'm like, oh, I really want to know about you. I wouldn't want to dismiss that, but to your point,

if they're too curious, now... sweet and kind and generous and like really curious about something. Like, oh, I really want to know about you.

I wouldn't want to dismiss that, but to your point, if they're too curious, now does that become something they're trying to get out of me? Where's that feeling like? How do you assess that? I sort of feel like it's when they're being intrusive, right? So they may ask a question. And because of their lack of empathy, they may push because they want to know more.

I don't know.

Let's say there's something about your family history. You don't want someone to know. Tell me about your family. You know what? Like suffice it to say I got a family. No, no, no. Tell me. Tell me. Come on. You know, I'm getting to know you. You've said I don't want to talk about my family. And then they're pushing. I would say early in a relationship, you ask someone a question and they say, you know, I'm going to let that go. A healthy person would say completely understand. Right? But if a person keeps pushing what they're doing, they want to see how far they can push your boundaries. They're learning how elastic that this is. Whereas if a person says, no, I really don't want to talk about that. I'll be frank with you, if you say lay down that kind of gauntlet, that kind of boundary on a first date, a narcissist, you're not going to get a second date. And that's the best thing that could have happened to you. Yeah, they're not going to be interesting because they're starting to see your boundaries can't be messed with. And so, you know, when you say, no, I'm actually not going to talk about that,

they might even un when they don't see you again, and you're like, I wonder why they don't want to see me again, they may consider you cold, dismissive, you're not open. So things that you actually think of yourself as a very open person, but you have appropriate boundaries, narcissistic people fool with those qualities we want to have. We want to be open. We want to be willing to exchange ideas but when they pathologize you and say oh I guess you're not that open you're thinking I'm open. Oh you want to know about my family and now you've put your cards out there and that's going to come back and haunt you. Oh god and so now they're literally like oh okay I've just tested it. I see that I can push them. And so for them, it's like a check.

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