That's what it takes. It takes the courage. It takes the willingness to say, I'm gonna make something mediocre.

And that is beautiful because the only way to something brilliant is to let yourself make something mediocre.

Hi there, Hesler. Are you ready for another episode of the Jasmine Star Show? Well, ready or not? Here we go, baby Boo.

So let's get this party started. Today's episode is one of my favorites since starting this podcast.

I am letting you in on a conversation I had with my incredibly smart, introspective, absolutely hilarious friend, Kefi Heller.

As creator and host of Don't Keep Your Day job, Kefi Heller is growing one of the best, most engaged audiences in podcasting.

Her podcast has over 10 million downloads and 10 million with an M y'all with an M prior to her podcast,

Kefi Handcrafted a career as a songwriter and she licensed her music to film and TV and advertising so basically she's the coolest.

She's one of my coolest friends. I don't even know why she likes to hang out with me, but she's one upping it because she's gonna be hanging out with us.

I am so excited for you to hear this conversation with my sweet friend, Kefi. So I am gonna stop talking so you can start listening. Enjoy.

I have told you this a thousand times before, but I am thrilled to get to chat because the minute we met, we both immediately knew we love being messy.

Well, actually, I should say I'm a neat person in real life, but when it comes to building a business, I think that being messy is the fastest way to learn and grow.

And I know based on our friendship and past conversations, you are a proponent of the mess as well, but I really like your spin on it because you say that being messy means that you could put beautiful things out on the world.

And that will lead you to ways to make a living. Can you explain that?

Yes. Well, first of all, it's such an honor to be looking at you right now and being on your show because I told you this before we started recording, but everyone who's listening, you know this.

Jasmine, it's as if you like channel the word of God, like you're such an empowering light in this world.

Oh my god, Kefi.

You see people see themselves. That's your gift. You show people what's possible and to show someone what's possible is the, it's, it's the greatest, greatest gift.

So what I want to say about that is that everyone who's listening, and I know this because I've been on the planet long enough to know that everyone who's listening at some point by the age of four or nine, you got your heart broken.

Either somebody walked out or somebody passed away or you loved someone who didn't love you back or you were rejected. I mean, it's real.

And so I'm starting there because what happens is as little human beings, we develop survival skills. Thank God to get us through incredible pain.

And what often happens as a result is we create a strategy, which says, I know what I'll do.

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