You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I am your host, Chris Duffy.

Today's guest, Debbie Millman, is one of the most acclaimed and talented podcasters around.

You know her from her fantastic Design Matters podcast, but she's also an incredible artist,

an author, an illustrator, an educator, and so much more.

We're going to be talking with Debbie about how to stay curious,

how to grow as an artist, and how to design the arc of a creative life. That is a question that

Debbie has been investigating for more than 20 years on her show Design Matters, and it's one that

has lessons for people in all phases of their life. I cannot tell you how much I have taken away

from listening to Debbie's

show and from learning from her. So to start us off, here is a clip from a Design Matters episode.

This was a live event that they did at the Green Space in NYC. And at this event, Debbie is

being interviewed by her wife, the writer Roxanne Gay, about what inspired Debbie to start design matters

in the first place. You've been doing design matters for 15 years, which in podcast years is about

100. Why did you decide to do a podcast and how have you sustained the interest in doing one

for so many years?

Well, I didn't really decide to do one. I was asked, I was offered an opportunity by Voice America Business Network, which was a fledgling internet radio network at the time. And I was offered

the opportunity to pay them for airtime on their network.

And at the time, I was doing very well professionally in a commercial realm.

And I had surpassed any possible hope or dream that I'd had professionally in my branding career, but because it was all

commercial, I actually felt that I was dying and that I had lost all of my creative heart.

And, you know, I wasn't writing anymore. I wasn't drawing anymore. I wasn't doing anything

creative. And I understood why. I wasn't drawing anymore. I wasn't doing anything creative.

...