How to Build Ruthless Empathy Without Getting Soft | Stanford Psychologist Jamil Zaki (Fan Fav)

Tom Bilyeu's Impact Theory

Impact Theory

Education, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Technology, Society & Culture, Business, Self-improvement

4.7 • 5.1K Ratings

🗓️ 6 December 2025

⏱️ 52 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

This is a fan fav episode. When you think of empathy you may think of being overpowered with feelings and emotions for someone close to you that is having a response to something. Possibly you lump sympathy in the same basket with empathy and toss kindness in for good measure. Stanford professor and psychologist, Jamil Saki, joins me to not only break down the distinction between empathy and sympathy, but also explains the reason that empathy is critical to success and achieving goals. Understanding how empathy is so closely connected to how we advance as communities and build stronger relationships is life changing. Order Jamil Zaki’s new book, The War for Kindness: https://www.amazon.com/War-Kindness-Building-Empathy-Fractured/dp/0451499247 War For Kindness Empathy Gym: https://www.warforkindness.com/challenges Original air date: 6-18-2021 SHOW NOTES: War For Kindness | Jamil explains the oxymoron and the need to fight separation [0:26] Darwin Debunked | Jamil on how much more successful species are working together [2:26] Kindness Wins | 2 ways kindness is proven to be evolutionary winner & key to success [4:04] Collaborative Intelligence | Why humans have evolved intelligence to collaborate and win [6:10] Cooperation | Jamil on the effectiveness of cooperation to advance culture and society [9:24] Empathy | Jamil on why empathy is a vital skill for relationships and achieving goals [10:34] Defining Empathy | 3 parts that define the full range of empathy for connecting to others [11:56] Empathy & Kindness | Why you can have one without the other and how it’s less healthy [13:00] Sympathy | Why Jamil avoids this term and feels the word has been compromised [14:19] Helpful Empathy | Jamil explains why certain parts empathy are not always useful [20:13] Survival Skill | How Jamil landed on his passion for exploring empathy as psychologist [21:57] Parochial Empathy | Jamil on how conflict leads us to selective empathy [26:24] Train Up Empathy | Jamil shares ways to build and improve empathy [30:08] Rwanda Genocide | How story-telling is being used to heal and finding empathy [34:27] Contact | How prejudice & hatred are easiest at a distance and how Tony found empathy [38:33] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	When we start to think of situations as zero sum, when we start to believe that every victory of yours is a defeat of mine, we actually lose opportunities to find win-win situations, common ground and common solutions. In fact, it's totally fine to acknowledge differences between you and somebody else. But when we take that sentiment and say,
0:23.6	and also you're not even a person,
0:25.6	I'm not even going to see you as anything beyond the opinion that I hate.
0:29.6	We just lose so many opportunities from that.
0:32.6	And we don't have to do that.
0:38.8	Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Imp2. And we don't have to do that. Hey, everybody.
0:39.9	Welcome to another episode of Impact Theory.
0:42.3	I am joined by Professor of Psychology, Jamil Zaki, at Stanford, by the way.
0:47.9	Not a Bad Pedigree, my friend.
0:49.8	And author of the amazing book, The War for Kindness. Thank you for joining me today.
0:56.6	Thanks for having me, Tom. It's a pleasure. So, man, we're in a war for kindness. How do you see that?
1:02.8	You know, I get asked about the title of the book all the time. A war for kindness, that just
1:08.5	sounds like an oxymoron, you can't possibly mean that.
1:12.0	I do mean it.
1:13.0	I think that the way that I see it, we as a species, are built, evolved for connection and togetherness.
1:21.3	But that doesn't mean that those qualities of life are easy to cultivate.
1:25.8	And the way I think about it, modern life has sort of put a bunch of barriers in the way
1:31.0	to human connection, things like political polarization, the way we use technology, the levels
1:36.4	of stress we're dealing with, pull us apart instead of bringing us together.
1:40.7	And so in order to kind of rehumanize ourselves, in order to recover our sense of
1:47.2	connection to other people, I think you do need to fight those trends. And I think that we can
1:52.0	win, but I do think it's a battle. I actually love that language. I was once, I think, rightly
	...

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