We become more whole as persons when we have life transforming encounters with the literature of the Bible in its variety.

So there is an aesthetic awakening, an appreciation of beauty that can come through when we are reading psalms that celebrate nature.

That's not going to come through to us in the same way in reading other kinds of literature in the Bible.

So we are becoming more complete as persons when we are exposed more richly to the Bible in all of its variety.

Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week for thoughtful

interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with Phil Reichen.

Phil currently serves as the 8th president of Wheaton College.

Before that, he was a pastor at Philadelphia's 10th Presbyterian Church for over a decade.

He's also the author of numerous books and served as a contributing editor to the ESV Literary

Study Bible from Crossway.

Today, Phil and I discuss the literary qualities of Scripture.

He makes the case for focusing not just on what the biblical writers said, but also on how

they said it, which contributes to the meaning of the text.

He also explains why this

literary approach to the Bible has largely been neglected by evangelicals, what it really means

to read the Bible literally, and how all of this relates to the plain meaning of the words of

scripture. Let's get started. Phil, thank you for joining me on the Crossway podcast today.

Thank you, Matt. Great to be talking with you.

Yeah, so when it comes to reading the Bible and studying the Bible, I think we as conservative,

evangelical Christians tend to focus on what the Bible is saying to us, but we're perhaps

not quite as familiar with focusing on how the Bible is saying to us, but we're perhaps not quite as familiar with focusing on how

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