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The Ezra Klein Show

How the Fed Is ‘Shaking the Entire System’

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 7 October 2022

⏱️ 86 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

“There are moments when history making creeps up on you,” writes the economic historian Adam Tooze. “This is one of those moments.” Countries across the world are raising interest rates at unprecedented speeds. That global monetary tightening is colliding with spiking food and energy prices, financial market instability, high levels of emerging market debt and economies still struggling to recover from the Covid pandemic. Alone, each of these factors would warrant concern; combined, they could be catastrophic. We’re already beginning to see what happens as these dynamics intersect: Britain just experienced a bond market meltdown that threatened one of the most advanced financial systems in the world. Developing countries like Sri Lanka, Argentina and Pakistan are experiencing political and economic crises. The World Bank believes we could be headed for a severe global recession. Tooze is the director of the European Institute at Columbia University and the author of multiple histories of financial crises and near crises and of the excellent Chartbook newsletter. He believes this particular confluence of high inflation, rising interest rates and high levels of debt points to an economic “polycrisis” unlike any the world has seen. And he and others have argued that the U.S. Fed’s decision to raise interest rates is a core driver of that crisis. So this is a conversation about the fragile, uncertain future of the global economy at this history-making moment and the Fed’s role in it. We discuss what the British financial market meltdown means for the rest of the world, how the interest rate hikes in rich countries export inflation to other countries, the looming possibility of a global recession, why Tooze believes something could break in the global financial system, why countries in South Asia are experiencing a particularly severe form of “polycrisis,” how the Fed should weigh its mandate to bring down inflation against the global consequences of its actions, why he believes analogies to the American inflationary period of the 1970s are misguided and more. Mentioned: “Slouching Towards Utopia by J Bradford DeLong — fuelling America’s global dream” by Adam Tooze Book recommendations: The Neapolitan Novels by Elena Ferrante Youthquake by Edward Paice Slouching Towards Utopia by J. Bradford DeLong Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Original music by Isaac Jones. Mixing by Jeff Geld. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin, Kristina Samulewski, Jason Furman, Mike Konczal and Maurice Obstfeld.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Ezra Klein.

0:07.0

This is the Ezra Conchell.

0:23.9

How do you describe Adam Tewes?

0:25.4

Adam Tewes is an economic historian at Columbia University.

0:29.0

He's the author of the excellent Musquehry Newsletter chart book.

0:33.4

And he's become, I think, a key interpreter and a subscriber of the way the international

0:40.0

finance system works.

0:41.0

He's become a historian of our financial present.

0:43.8

Also, I should note a repeat guest on the show.

0:46.9

But for the past few months, Tewes has been taken the global view of this economic moment,

0:50.8

rather than the US-centric one that a lot of us are used to.

0:54.4

Right now, we are seeing around the world a convergence of forces.

0:58.4

We have high inflation.

0:59.9

We have central banks, hiking interest rates.

1:02.3

We have governments cutting spending and raising taxes.

1:04.6

We have very high levels of dollar-denominated debt.

1:08.2

And we have droughts and floods that have been quite a bit worsened by climate change.

1:12.9

Some countries amidst all this have already tipped into ecological or political or economic

1:17.9

crisis.

1:18.9

Many more are fragile.

1:19.9

It's easy to imagine them tipping there.

1:23.4

And what's happening now is that richer countries, most importantly the US, are tightening

...

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