This may be one of the most difficult environments for corporate decision makers ever.

So how are leaders navigating this uncertainty and our opportunities arising out of the volatility?

I'm Allison Nathan and this is Goldman Sachs exchanges.

Today I'm sitting down with John Waldron, the president and chief operating officer of Goldman Sachs.

He'll share how the firm's clients and Goldman Sachs are charting the path forward.

John, welcome back to the program. Thank you, Alison. Good to be here. So, John, to say this year has

been marked by uncertainty would be a huge understatement. So as we sit here today, what's your

sense on where the economy is headed? So I think that we are seeing tremendous resilience in the U.S. economy, to start in the U.S.,

lots of predictions about recession and, you know, negative economic scenarios right on the

back of the Liberation Day in early April.

And actually, the data thus far has been pretty okay. So we've seen the economy

kind of hang in there. The U.S. consumer is still essentially healthy and spending. Employment

is strong. There's a lot of fiscal impulse. So the government continues to spend, even though

we talk a lot about doge and other elements of reduction in spend, the reality is the hard data shows you that the government continues to spend, even though we talk a lot about Doge and other elements of reduction

and spend, the reality is the hard data shows you that the government continues to spend.

So all those factors in the U.S. to me lead to still, I think, a likely scenario where we don't

have a recession. The big question mark would be, to me, two pieces. One is tariffs. Where do tariffs ultimately end up? We've seen a journey from

Liberation Day, a more maximalist approach, just something now that at least looks more targeted.

It's still a lot higher. If tariff rates end up at an effective rate of 13, 14, 15 percent,

that's a lot higher than the 2 percent where we started. But nonetheless, I think it feels to me that we're heading towards something that's more manageable

that can be adjusted, you know, that companies can adjust to.

And then the second big question mark in my mind, maybe the biggest question mark, at least

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