meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
The Ezra Klein Show

How Energy Markets Are Shaping Putin’s Invasion — and the World

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 22 March 2022

⏱️ 63 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Nearly every dimension of the Ukraine-Russia conflict has been shaped by energy markets. Russia’s oil and gas exports have long been the foundation of its economy and geopolitical strength. Vladimir Putin’s decision to invade Ukraine — like his annexation of Crimea in 2014 — coincided with high energy prices. While Western sanctions have dealt a major blow to Russia’s financial system, European carve-outs for Russian oil and gas have kept hundreds of millions of dollars flowing to Moscow every day. As a result, energy policy has become foreign policy. European countries are doubling down on their commitments to decarbonize in order to reduce their dependence on Russian energy as quickly as possible. The United States has banned Russian oil and gas imports, and in the wake of spiking gasoline prices, the Biden administration is looking for any opportunity to increase the world’s oil supply, including the possibility of normalizing trade relations with previously blacklisted countries like Venezuela and Iran. But the intersection of energy and geopolitics extends far beyond this conflict. Energy is the bedrock of nations’ economic prosperity, military strength and geopolitical power. Which means energy markets are constantly shaping and reshaping global dynamics. You can’t understand the way the world operates today if you don’t understand the global flow of energy. There are few people who have studied energy markets as closely as Daniel Yergin has. He is an economic historian and writer who has been called “America’s most influential energy pundit” in The New York Times. And he’s the author of numerous books on the intersection of energy and geopolitics, including the Pulitzer Prize-winning “The Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power” and, most recently, the best-selling “The New Map: Energy, Climate, and the Clash of Nations.” We discuss how Putin’s invasion halfway across the world caused gasoline prices to rise in California; what would happen to European economies if they decided to cut off Russian gas; how the U.S. shale revolution has transformed the global political landscape; why, when it comes to China and Russia, Yergin believes that “a relationship that was once based on Marx and Lenin is now grounded in oil and gas”; whether Donald Trump was right to be skeptical of Nord Stream 2; why decarbonization is not only beneficial for the climate but also crucial for national security; whether the Biden administration’s response to spiking energy prices is putting its climate agenda in jeopardy; why Yergin thinks hydrogen power could become central to combating climate change; and much more. Book recommendations: Putin’s World by Angela Stent The Power of Law by Sebastian Mallaby The Cloud Revolution by Mark P. Mills Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Andrea López-Cruzado; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

I'm Ezra Klein and this is the Ezra Klein Show.

0:24.8

Energy policy is foreign policy.

0:27.0

It has always been.

0:29.0

But it is right now.

0:31.0

It's widely believed that Vladimir Putin timed both his 2014 invasion of Crimea and his

0:36.2

2022 invasion of Ukraine around tight energy markets.

0:41.1

It's thought that he thought, maybe rightly, that he'd have the most leverage to act

0:46.7

when Europe was most dependent on Russian oil and gas and when leaders everywhere feared

0:51.3

the domestic turmoil that higher energy prices could bring.

0:55.6

The reverse theory was in operation too.

0:57.7

In a decision that Alex Naive, Germany's Angela Merkel, thought that integrating Russia

1:02.5

into Europe through the energy trade might smooth the road to peace, giving Russia too

1:07.1

much to lose if it considered doing something like, well, what it's doing right now.

1:12.8

All that is to say to understand this war, to understand this moment, to understand

1:17.2

this world, you need to understand global energy production and global energy markets.

1:22.6

You need to understand why war in Ukraine raises gasoline prices in California.

1:27.2

You need to know why the fact that America produces more energy than it needs, the fact

1:31.2

that we got to that much vaunted, much desired energy independence, doesn't actually make

1:36.4

us energy independent.

1:37.4

It doesn't actually protect us from disruptions half a world away.

1:41.3

And in the bigger, broader sense, we need to think hard about what all of this domestic

1:47.0

sensitivity and turmoil around the price of the pump means for the always looming threat

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from New York Times Opinion, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of New York Times Opinion and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.