How Economists Forgot the Real World and Led Us Astray (with Nat Dyer)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.8 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 23 September 2025

⏱️ 41 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In the second episode of our Trade series, Nick and Goldy talk with author Nat Dyer about his book Ricardo’s Dream: How Economists Forgot the Real World and Led Us Astray. Dyer reveals how David Ricardo’s famous theory of comparative advantage—long touted as proof that free trade is always a win-win—was built on unrealistic assumptions and a false history. They trace how this elegant but misleading model fueled globalization, masked exploitation, and locked nations into centuries of stagnation. From Trump’s tariff tantrums to Biden’s “small yard, high fence” strategy, their conversation challenges the myths of free trade and asks: when does trade strengthen societies, and when does it doom them to decline? Nat Dyer is a writer and researcher specializing in global political economy and author of the book Ricardo's Dream: How Economists Forgot the Real World and Led Us Astray. He is a Fellow of the Schumacher Institute and the Royal Society of Arts. He has worked for Global Witness and for Promoting Economic Pluralism, and his stories have been reported on by the BBC, the New York Times, and Bloomberg. Social Media: @natjdyer.bsky.social @natjdyer Further reading: Ricardo's Dream: How Economists Forgot the Real World and Led Us Astray Escape from Model Land: How Mathematical Models Can Lead Us Astray and What We Can Do about It Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Threads: pitchforkeconomics Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer, @civicaction YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result of decades of bad economic theory.
0:11.0	The last five decades of trickle-down economics haven't worked. But what's the alternative?
0:16.0	Middle-out economics is the answer. Because the middle class is the source of growth, not its consequence.
0:23.1	That's right.
0:28.7	This is pitchfork economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.
0:36.9	Welcome to the show.
0:41.0	Goldie, I'm really looking forward to talking to our guest today, Nat Dyer, because he's
0:46.9	most definitely a fellow traveler and shines a bright light on some of the ridiculousness that permeates contemporary economics or
0:58.1	orthodox economics.
0:59.3	And he's got this cool new book out, Ricardo's dream, How Conomists Forgot the Real World
1:03.2	and Let Us Astray, that zeroes in on our old friend David Ricardo and his theory of
1:10.3	comparative advantage that has so dominated
1:14.5	traditional economic thinking and has, you know, heavily featured in the neoclassical models
1:20.5	that have influenced policymaking over the decades.
1:26.4	And reshaped the world over the past 40, 50 years through globalism, free trade, etc., which is all,
1:34.8	I don't know if you've paid any attention to the headlines, but trade is a big issue right now.
1:38.8	It is.
1:40.2	It is.
1:41.3	And it's really frustrating.
1:47.3	It's so frustrating, right?
1:48.9	Because even if Trump was right about trade, even if he was absolutely right,
1:57.0	like even if he was a, his analysis was dead on.
	...

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