How Did Queer People Experience Nazi Germany? with Dr. W. Jake Newsome

Getting Curious with Jonathan Van Ness

Sony Music

Science, Self-improvement, Comedy, Education, Society & Culture

4.9 • 21.5K Ratings

🗓️ 14 September 2022

⏱️ 78 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In 1871, Germany adopted an anti-sodomy statute called Paragraph 175. Sixty years later, the Nazis broadened that law—and it quickly became the basis for persecuting Germany’s queer population. When World War II ended, Paragraph 175 remained on the books. Dr. W. Jake Newsome joins Jonathan to discuss queer Germans’ experiences of Nazi rule and its aftermaths, the history and legacy of the pink triangle, and how this pivotal moment in queer history bears on today. CW: This episode references racist, anti-Semitic, and homophobic ideology, and bodily harm. W. Jake Newsome, Ph.D. is an award-winning scholar of German and American LGBTQ+ history whose work educates global audiences. His new book Pink Triangle Legacies: Coming Out in the Shadow of the Holocaust chronicles the dynamic and inspiring history of the LGBTQ+ community's first international pride symbol: the pink triangle. For more of Dr. Newsome’s work, visit his website or follow him on Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok @wjnewsome. You can find digital essays, videos, podcasts, lesson plans, and other resources on LGBTQIA+ people in Nazi Germany at wjakenewsome.com/resources. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @CuriousWithJVN to join the conversation. Jonathan is on Instagram and Twitter @JVN and @Jonathan.Vanness on Facebook. Transcripts for each episode are available at JonathanVanNess.com. Love listening to Getting Curious? Now, you can also watch Getting Curious—on Netflix! Head to netflix.com/gettingcurious to dive in. Our executive producer is Erica Getto. Our associate producer is Zahra Crim. Our editor is Andrew Carson. Our theme music is “Freak” by QUIÑ; for more, head to TheQuinCat.com. Getting Curious merch is available on PodSwag.com.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to Getting Curious, I'm Jonathan Viennes, and every week I sit down for a gorgeous
0:04.3	conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that makes me curious.
0:09.4	On today's episode, I'm joined by Dr. Jake Newsom, where I ask him, how to queer people experience
0:16.0	Nazi Germany. Welcome to Getting Curious, this is Jonathan Viennes. We have such a good episode
0:22.0	for you today, like chills on my triceps level, good episode. Let's dive in. Welcome to the show
0:27.6	Dr. Jake Newsom, who is a scholar of German and American LGBTQ plus history, his new book,
0:34.3	Pink Triangle Legacies, coming out in the shadow of the Holocaust, chronicles the lies and legacies
0:40.1	of the Nazis LGBTQ plus victims. Hi Jake, how are you? Hey Jonathan, it's always a great day to
0:46.0	talk about queer history. Aim into that. We are in this moment where LGBTQIA plus and reproductive
0:52.5	rights are under attack in the US. We're literally under attack legislatively, like we are having
0:59.2	families literally investigated for felonies for having their child go to therapy for letting
1:05.5	their kid wear gender affirming stuff going to a doctor for like puberty blockers like felonies.
1:11.6	felonies you guys, full felonies and reproductive rights have obviously just been fully upended.
1:17.6	And to that, I would just say one more little thing. I feel like I'm seeing a lot of comments of
1:21.6	folks being like, thanks for showing up for reproductive rights. We'll make sure to show up for
1:26.0	queer rights. This is not solely a women's issue. Reproductive rights and queer rights are
1:30.1	inextricably linked. Your book is about LGBTQIA plus and reproductive rights under Nazi rule.
1:37.6	Can you introduce us to you and your work and what this book is all about?
1:43.2	Jonathan, I grew up in a very small rural agricultural community in southwest Georgia.
1:50.1	I was very, very closeted. And the only thing that I knew about gay people is what I learned about
1:56.7	on Sundays in church. How I made sense of all of the feelings that I had was that homosexuality
2:03.0	was a sin, which also meant that it was a choice. And it wasn't until I went to college.
	...

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