I'm Brian Lehrer. This is my daily politics podcast from WNYC Studios. It's Monday, March 8th.

Now we continue with our series, Punishment and Profit, which we're doing in conjunction with the Green Space here at WNYC.

The Green Space is having live virtual events on Tuesday nights.

We're doing these previews on Mondays of these very interesting conversations they've been having

about the intersection of the criminal justice system and business.

We've got a short one today to fit into our membership drive schedule,

but no less interesting, the business of prison equipment. Who in the outside world ever

thinks about that kind of topic? So back with us is Bianca Tilek, founder and executive director

of the group Worth Rises, which thinks about it a lot, their mission is to expose perverse incentives

that prison-related businesses set up that come out and how people are treated. And Bianca has this

uniquely perfect background for the work she's doing now. I don't think we mentioned this earlier in

the series, but she has worked with corrections agencies in New York

City and elsewhere. So she's got that. Worked for the campaign to end mass incarceration

at the ACLU. She's got that. And she worked as a financial analyst at Morgan Stanley and City Group.

So let's see with all those intersecting expertise is what she can teach us about punishment and profits this week,

the topic this time being prison equipment. Hi, Bianca. Welcome back to

WNYC. Hi, Brian. So nice to be back with you. Thank you so much.

And with us also this week is WNYC and Gothamist reporter George Joseph,

because he's written a piece about what happens when a particular piece of prison equipment

becomes faulty and has dire consequences for inmates. Hey, George, welcome back to the show.

Hey, Brian. Thanks so much. And we will reveal your specific in a couple of minutes.

But, Bianca, I see there are yearly trade shows by the American Correctional Association

...