Big news from Sunday has rocked the impeachment world this week. Details of former National Security

Advisor John Bolton's unpublished book manuscript became public. These details suggested

that Bolton could provide first-hand evidence that President Trump directly tried to deny

security assistance to Ukraine until Ukraine announced investigations into Trump's political

opponents, including Joe and Hunter Biden. That assertion from Bolton's book has renewed

the call by Democrats for witnesses in Trump's Senate impeachment trial. And yet, that interaction

between Trump and Bolton, though potentially the most explosive, wasn't the only chat

alleged in the leak details of Bolton's book. Another was a key interaction between Bolton

and Attorney General William Barr, shortly after Trump's now infamous call with Ukrainian

President Vladimir Zelinsky. In this episode, we want to focus on that conversation. What

the purported exchange between Bolton and Barr might tell us about the Attorney General's

role in Ukraine-related events, where it leaves a justice department designed to maintain

independence from the President and uphold the rule of law. And of course, what it all means

for Trump's impeachment trial. This is Ken Hedew, that a podcast that explores the powers

and limitations of the American presidency. And what happens when branches of government

collide? I'm Allison Michaels.

Matt Zabotowski is the Post's Justice Department reporter. I asked him to come back on the show

and answer some questions for me about that Barr Bolton conversation. Now, according to

Bolton's manuscript, the former National Security Advisor directly told the Attorney General

in this key conversation that on Trump's July 25th call with Zelinsky, the President

suggested Zelinsky get in touch with Barr about investigations. Matt unpacked these complicated

details for me, but first I asked him to explain what this week's early reporting has

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