And the Hi, I'm Peter Adamson and you're listening to the history of the King's College,

Hi, I'm Peter Adamson and you're listening to the History of Philosophy podcast, brought to you with the support of the

King's College London Philosophy Department and the LMU in Munich online at

History of Philosophy.net. Today's episode, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Machiavelli.

Sometimes it seems like there's only one political dispute which simply manifests itself in many different ways. Should we be bleeding-heart idealists or

hard-nosed realists? The idealist wants us to act nobly and morally in political life. The realist knows that this is wishful thinking and that we should instead do what might actually work.

The idealist says seek peace. The realist says arm yourself to the teeth just in case.

The idealist says, help the poor.

The realist says this will only encourage them not to get jobs.

The idealist says you should read philosophy, perhaps Plato, and the realist agrees but says read Machiavelli instead.

Rather ironically, given his irreligious reputation, Machiavelli is the patron saint of political realism.

His most famous work, entitled The Prince, instructs its noble recipient on how best to exercise

political power.

The advice it contains has won Machiavelli of reputation for realism, indeed for cynicism, for being rather well Machiavelli in. That word is rarely a compliment. It has a rather sinister connotation and

means someone who is happy to use wicked means to attain his or her ends, which is why

Shakespeare refers to him as the murderous Machiavel.

Is this reputation deserved?

We might be skeptical if we think of the way we use phrases like platonic love and Epicurean pleasures.

We just saw in a recent episode that it was some fancy interpretive footwork that allowed

the Renaissance humanists to de-emphasize Plato's interest in sexual love. And as those same humanists understood,

Epicurus' commitment to heatenism actually demanded strict moderation rather than gourmet

eating precisely because an abstemious diet is more pleasant in the long run.

...