Hi. Hi, I'm Peter Adamson, and you're listening to the History of Philosophy podcast, brought to you

with the support of King's College London and the Lever Hume Trust, online at

W.W. History of Philosophy.net. Today's episode,

Soul and the City, Plato's political philosophy.

One of the most famous scenes in the history of the Peloponnese political philosophy.

One of the most famous scenes in the history of the Peloponnesian war by the ancient Greek historian Thucydides

presents a dialogue between the representatives of Athens and the people of a small island called Melos.

The Athenians are embroiled in their long-running war against Sparta and its allies.

The Melians have preserved their neutrality in this war, but now, the Athenians want to persuade the people of Melos

to join the fight against the Spartan alliance.

When the Melians ask why they should do this,

the Athenians admit that they can offer no principled reason.

Instead, they point out that they are powerful, whereas the Milians are weak.

Their argument is simple.

Join us or be smashed. The millions opted not to join Athens and were duly smashed.

The men of the island were massacred, the women and children sold into slavery and the island made into an Athenian colony.

As Thucydides has the Athenians observe, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what

they must.

Actually this traditional translation of Thucydides' famous aphorism is not particularly accurate, but in any translation, the scene shows Athens giving Melos a brutal lesson in Real Politique. Thucydides has his own reasons for putting this speech into the mouths of the Athenians,

because it helps him develop his great theme of Athenian arrogance and expansionism.

On his telling, the Athenians reap what they sow when they lose the Peloponnesian war.

This shook the political institutions of Athens to their foundations.

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