Hiroshima: The untold story – with Gavin Esler and Richard Overy

The Bunker

Podmasters

News, Politics, Society & Culture, Government

4.6 • 984 Ratings

🗓️ 5 March 2025

⏱️ 21 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Eighty years ago, the world witnessed an unprecedented act of devastation: the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As the Second World War reached its conclusion, American bombers dropped two nuclear weapons in a final effort to force Japan’s surrender and bring the conflict to an end. Today in The Bunker, Gavin Esler is joined by Richard Overy, author of Rain of Ruin: Tokyo, Hiroshima and the Surrender of Japan, to discuss the final days of World War II, the ethics of destroying entire cities, and how it reshaped the nature of warfare. Buy Rain of Ruin: Tokyo, Hiroshima and the Surrender of Japan through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund The Bunker by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. • We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/bunker for £100 sponsored credit. www.patreon.com/bunkercast Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Liam Tait. Audio editors: Robin Leeburn. Managing editor: Jacob Jarvis. Music by Kenny Dickinson. Group Editor: Andrew Harrison. THE BUNKER is a Podmasters Production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	We run adverts on our podcasts so we can pay our team and our freelancers,
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0:12.5	Just support us on Patreon for ad-free episodes.
0:15.9	Follow the link in the show notes to find out more.
0:32.4	Every British school child learns that World War II ended when Japan surrendered on September the 2nd, 1945, and that the surrender came about when the United States Air Force dropped two atomic bombs,
0:38.8	one on Hiroshima, the other on Nagasaki. The story of the race to build the bomb has been told
0:44.6	many times, including in the Oscar-winning 2024 film Oppenheimer, focusing on the father of
0:50.2	the bomb, as he was called, Robert Oppenheimer, the physicist who became director of the
0:54.9	top secret Manhattan Project. What's less well known is the story of how the US Air Force prepared to
1:01.1	bomb Japan. Like the Allied bombing of Dresden and other German cities, this meant targeting
1:06.0	civilians in hugely destructive bombing raids that began with conventional weapons.
1:15.8	Perhaps after the shock of the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941,
1:17.7	that was inevitable.
1:22.4	The US Army Chief of Staff, General George Marshall, was absolutely clear,
1:26.4	quote, there won't be any hesitation in bombing civilians.
1:28.1	It will be all out.
1:32.2	What followed then is an extraordinary story of a great power organizing its forces ruthlessly to win a war.
1:35.2	And a key part of that story is told brilliantly by historian Richard Overy
1:39.6	in his new book, Rain of Ruin, Tokyo, Hiroshima and the Surrender of Japan. And Richard, I'm pleased to say
1:46.3	joins me now. Hello. Hello. I thought Rain of Ruin was absolutely fascinating. Now,
1:52.4	what was your motivation for writing it? Because, as I mentioned, a lot of the side of the physics
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