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Big Technology Podcast

He Helped Train ChatGPT. It Was Traumatizing. – With Richard Mathenge

Big Technology Podcast

Alex Kantrowitz

Management, Religion, Politics, Entrepreneurship, Business News, News, Investing, Marketing, News Commentary, Social Sciences, Science, Society & Culture, Religion & Spirituality, Business, Tech News, Philosophy, Government, Technology

4.7596 Ratings

🗓️ 17 May 2023

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Richard Mathenge was part of a team of contractors in Nairobi, Kenya who trained OpenAI's GPT models. He did so as a team lead at Sama, an AI training company that partnered on the project. In this episode of Big Technology Podcast, Mathenge tells the story of his experience. During the training, he was routinely subjected to sexually explicit material, offered insufficient counseling, and his team members were paid, in some cases, just $1 per hour. Listen for an in-depth look at how these models are trained, and for a look at the human side of Reinforcement Learning with Human Feedback. --- Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice. For weekly updates on the show, sign up for the pod newsletter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/6901970121829801984/ Questions? Feedback? Write to: bigtechnologypodcast@gmail.com ---- OpenAI's response: We engaged Sama as part of our ongoing work to create safer AI systems and prevent harmful outputs. We take the mental health of our employees and our contractors very seriously. One of the reasons we first engaged Sama was because of their commitment to good practices. Our previous understanding was that wellness programs and 1:1 counseling were offered, workers could opt out of any work without penalization, exposure to explicit content would have a limit, and sensitive information would be handled by workers who were specifically trained to do so. Upon learning of Sama worker conditions in February of 2021 we immediately sought to find out more information from Sama. Sama simultaneously informed us that they were exiting the content moderation space all together. OpenAI paid Sama $12.50 / hour. We tried to obtain more information about worker compensation from Sama but they never provided us with hard numbers. Sama did provide us with a study they conducted across other companies that do content moderation in that region and shared Sama’s wages were 2-3x the competition. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

LinkedIn Presents.

0:13.8

Welcome to Big Technology podcast, a show for cool-headed, nuanced conversation of the tech world and beyond.

0:20.5

Richard Matanga is our guest today, and he's here to share the story of how large language

0:25.1

models like OpenAI's GPT model get trained because he and a team of colleagues in Africa

0:30.8

actually did it.

0:32.6

Matanga, who is based in Kenya, is a former team lead at SAMA, a company that's trained AI models on

0:38.4

behalf of companies like OpenAI, and his is a story you really need to hear. And fair warning,

0:44.9

there are parts of it that just are not pretty. While at SAMA, Metenga and his team reviewed

0:49.8

and rated texts based off of quality and explicitness to help make the product that you and I use

0:55.3

today a pleasant experience. This involved routine exposure to some extremely awful text,

1:01.3

which Matanga will describe here. In this conversation, he talks about the human side

1:05.6

of reinforcement learning with human feedback, which is the key advance that helps make

1:10.3

these models so impressive.

1:12.7

Too often, the human element of that advance is left out. And so today, Metenga's going to share

1:18.2

it. He's going to share his story of how he and his colleagues, needing work in a pandemic-wrecked

1:22.8

economy, found themselves at the ugly center of one of this generation's biggest technological advances.

1:30.2

My conversation with Richard Metanga coming up right after this.

1:35.0

Hey, I'm Michael Kovnet, host of The Next Big Idea Daily.

1:38.7

The show is a masterclass in Better Living from some of the smartest writers around.

1:43.4

Every morning, Monday through Friday, we'll serve up a quick 10-minute lesson on how to

1:48.0

strengthen your relationships, supercharge your creativity, boost your productivity, and more.

1:53.0

Follow the next big idea daily wherever you get your podcasts.

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