Oh, yay, oh, yay, oh, yay, oh, yeah.

The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court.

Unless there is any more question, be able to find an argument in this case.

All persons having business before the Honorable, the Supreme Court of the United States are in honorous to give their attention.

Welcome to Divided Argument, an unscheduled, unap predictable Supreme Court podcast.

I'm Will Bode.

And I'm Dan Epps.

So today we're going a little bit off the beaten path and doing a special kind of episode.

We have occasionally done episodes to talk with friends of the show about books, and we're

going to do that today.

So we're joined by NYU Law Professor Rachel Barko, who's going to talk about her book, Justice Abandoned,

how the Supreme Court ignored the Constitution and enabled mass incarceration. And this is a book

that's really, really interesting, and I think a good fit for the show, given that it is about

the Supreme Court, and it's about criminal procedure, a bunch of cases that I teach. So Rachel,

thank you for joining us. Oh, thanks guys for having me. I really appreciate it. So I don't know where to

start. There's a lot of really interesting stuff in this book, but maybe we could just have you give us

the 30,000 foot overview, and then we can

kind of do a little bit more of a deep dive into different parts of the book? Yeah, sure. So,

you know, my usual take on mass incarceration and pathologies in criminal law and policy is to

focus on political actors and political dysfunction. That's kind of the bread and butter of what I do.

And my last book was all about that. And I had, you know, I felt like at the end of that book,

you got to give people solutions, or at least you have to gesture to them. And so as I was doing

...