I don't think we should be settling for slightly less harmful social media. I want the version of sort of the Mr. Rogers Sesame Street consciously developmental, you know, tech that's designed for kids. I think that we shouldn't be happy until

the parents of teenagers who work at these companies happily give

Instagram to their own children.

That is not currently the case.

And that's the easiest way to know whether something is good or not.

The CEO of Lunchables Foods did not give his own kids lunchables. So that tells you everything you need to know.

I'm John Favreau and I'm Max Fisher and you just heard from this week's guest executive director and co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology

Tristan Harris. Love that guy. So he's come up quite a few times on this pod. I first became familiar with him from watching the social dilemma,

that 2020 documentary. It's a very offline doc in which Tristan, who's a former design ethicist at Google,

outlines the tech industry's three main goals

to keep you scrolling, to keep you coming back,

and to make as much money as possible.

Simple, right?

The social dilemma cemented Tristan as one of Silicon Valley's most outspoken critics.

Since then, he's been a vocal critic of social media, the internet, most recently AI, where he recently

talked to Oprah, Heardover.

Okay.

Yeah, for an ABC special about AI.

It was the offline booking that got him on Oprah.

That's what it was, yeah, she knew, she wanted to get him first.

So I wanted to finally bring him on to chat about the state of

the tech industry and ask him if we should still be afraid of AI. Turns out we should.

...