The war in Ukraine enters a new phase, leaders of NATO meet in Brussels, and fear a negotiated

settlement between the Zelensky government and Russia.

Today we talk about the internal politics in Ukraine, the role of the far right, the fascists,

and neo-Nazis.

We need a new system. We need a new system.

We need a new society.

We need to demand that which may have sounded impossible even a few weeks ago,

but is not only realizable, but an imperative necessity. Welcome to The Real Story on the Socialist program.

I'm your host, Brian Becker.

Today we'll be talking to Dr. Gabriel Rockhill.

He is the founding director of the Critical Theory Workshop and professor of philosophy at Villanova University.

You can check out his latest article at liberationnews.org.

It's called Nazis in Ukraine,

seen through the fog of information war.

Dr. Rockhill, welcome back to the Socialist Program.

Thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure.

As I mentioned in the intro, NATO leaders are meeting in Brussels, and I was right before this show looking through the news accounts, and they're clearly worried that Zelensky might actually agree to a compromise settlement with Russia.

It's quite interesting. Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor, says,

oh, yes, of course we support Zelensky's right to negotiate, but of course there are also limits,

and we're sure that he's focused on victory, meaning the U.S. wants to win the war, and in many

ways Ukraine is a proxy war for the United States. They want to win the war, they don't want to end the war, and in many ways Ukraine is a proxy war for the United States. They want to win the

war. They don't want to end the war. All these crocodile tears about Ukrainians, and of course,

...