Welcome to getting curious. I'm Jonathan Venice and every week I sit down for a 40 minute conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that makes me curious.

On today's episode, I'm joined by Masha Gussin, staff writer for the New Yorker and author of the new book Surviving autocracy, where I asked them,

Is Donald Trump an autocratic Basic B?

Welcome to Getting curious. Welcome back. Trump, an autocratic basic bee.

Welcome to getting curious.

Welcome back, Masha Gessen.

I am very, and I say, air quotes,

happy to see you.

This is a new time in podcasting. I am in my closet. You're at

your house. I was I'm assuming last time we got to talk we were face to face in Manhattan and

obviously times have changed so if you hear my cats in the closet or a video game

in the background that's all that is everyone and that is not a big deal because what is a big deal is what we are here to talk about so your 11th book just came out. I mean first of all

Congratulations you are thank you yes, you're a prolific writer and first of all,

welcome back after all that talking.

Thank you, it's so good to be here.

I mean here, sort of, be.

Yes, all operative words words which is actually some of the things that you

talk about in surviving autocracy and so first of all first question pulling out a bit is what is autocracy? So autocracy is simply the rule of

one person right it's it's it's top down it's vertical it's free of checks and balances.

And, you know, I use that word because people have used different words to try to describe Trump.

And I think some accurately, some a little bit less accurately, a lot of the time

we throw around the word authoritarian, which in political science has specific definitions, but you know, we just

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