Hey Better Babes. I'm Jonathan Van Ness and welcome back to getting better.

Honey, today we are talking about someone who has not had the greatest decade.

In the words of Julia Roberts from my best friend's wedding, things are not going well for the separation of church and state.

It's a little bit under, it's actually really seriously under attack. And it's very serious.

And so to talk about this today and what we can do about it, we have Brian Silva, who is the

vice president of outreach at Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Brian, hi.

Hi.

Thanks for having me.

Brian, how are you?

I'm good.

I'm good.

It's summer.

So, you know, I'm a little happier. Yeah, it is nice. It is, you know, it's easier to fight for democracy when it's not freezing out.

Yes. Marching in the streets and the snow is harder.

It is. It's chilly. We have to be, you know, but also heat stuff. So we always have to be for the elements, honey. Okay, so yeah, I mean, I think I was trying to be like a little bit more lull in that intro when I said like someone who's not had a great decade. But when I think about it, separation in church and state, this is kind of like a random first question. But in your mind, when do you feel like it really took a turn? I have a guess, but I want to know what you think. You know,

I think that it's been a real, like, slow boil, but I think that, you know, the advance of

Christian nationalism and when, like, having it, like, pop up into the world and the changing

of the Supreme Court, I think really focus people's attention on, like,

oh, actually everything that I care about and everything that I am is protected by the separation

of church and state. And so now people are kind of like, the fire is happening, the call is coming

in the house, and we need to get on it. Yes. I feel like I've been so lucky on this podcast to interview so many incredible historians,

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