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It's so funny because when you look at the guys, that's never a topic of conversation. Yeah.

What you look like. It's all, did you watch the football last night? It's never about, what's your skincare routine? Whereas women walk into a room and because we've been taught to be pitted against each other. Yeah. Not always, but sometimes there's, oh my God, you know, I can't. It's a bit of a barrier. Yeah, yeah. And it shouldn't be there. We should be trying to change that stereotype,

believing that there is space for everybody.

Hello and welcome to GabFest Reeds for the month of August. I'm Emily Bazelon. I am here with my

dear colleague, Jonathan Mahler. Hey, Jonathan. Hi, Emily.

I am so glad to be here with you to talk about your new book, The Gods of New York. Just to introduce you for one second, you are a staff writer

at the New York Times Magazine with me and also the author of the bestselling book, Ladies and Gentlemen,

The Bronx is Burning. So we are here to talk about your new book, partly because I am fascinated

by New York politics right now with this race for mayor looming. And I'm hoping a lot of our

listeners feel the same. And so it was really a treat to go back into this history that you're telling.

The Gods of New York is about four years that you say utterly transformed New York. This is

1986 to 1990. It's the end of the era of Mayor Ed Koch. And you have a great quote about what you think happened in this

period. You say, the great working class city morphed into a city of entrenched poverty and

extreme wealth, of celebrity, audacity, individualism, learned indifference, and resentment,

foreshadowing the transformation of the broader nation.

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