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You're listening to the Nocturnous Conversations.

I'm Emily Silverman.

Often we underestimate how a career in medicine impacts not just us, but the people in our lives, our parents, our children, our partners,

even our friends. Whether our careers inspire others or create blockages in our personal lives or sometimes a mix of the two, the rigors of the health profession touch many more people

than just those working inside of it.

Today's guest isn't a physician, but her father was, and her relationship with him inspired her to

pursue a career helping clinicians find their voice. Her name is Laurel Bratman, and she's a writer,

teacher, secular clinical chaplain in training,

and author of the recent memoir, What Looks Like Bravery, an epic journey through loss to love, which we'll be talking about on today's episode.

In addition to her memoir, Laurel is the author of New York Times best-selling book Animal Madness,

which examines how animals, just like humans, have feelings. Laurel has a doctorate in history

and anthropology from MIT and has helped numerous students, staff, and clinicians tell their

stories in her role as the director of writing

and storytelling at the Stanford University School of Medicine.

In my conversation with Laurel, we talk about what it was like to grow up with a father

who was a surgeon and who spent many years suffering with terminal cancer.

Laurel talks about how his legacy impacted her, emotionally and professionally. who spent many years suffering with terminal cancer.

Laurel talks about how his legacy impacted her, emotionally and professionally,

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