We are certainly in a period of really terrible U.S.-China relations, and they've been getting

worse for years, and this year in particular, as the pandemic hit, and even frankly, in the last few

weeks, things have got worse and worse.

Hello and welcome to the GZero World Podcast. I'm Ian Bremmer, and here you'll find extended

versions of the interviews for my show

on public television. The U.S.-China relationship has devolved to its most dangerous point in decades

on nearly every front. Technology, trade, defense, human rights, pandemic response. Today, I'll dive into

all that and what the future holds for China on the global stage with Zanny Mint and Beto.

She's editor-in-chief of The Economist.

Let's get to it.

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Zanny Minton Bedos, editor-in-chief of the economist from an undisclosed location somewhere in the north of England.

Very good to be with you, Zanny.

Very nice to see you too, Ian, as always.

So the big fight right now, and we're talking about an awful lot on this side of the Atlantic,

you're talking about an awful lot in your pages on that side of Atlantic.

Do you think we are now heading into a new Cold War?

Well, we are certainly in a period of really terrible U.S.-China relations,

...