And all he had to say, he had to ask the person about his parents and then he did this.

So it's when you get too personal with people or it's just like an insecure stance that people have when it gets too close.

And I see it often at my work where you, I've also done like controlling visits where I do internal audit in the media company,

going to different, different under companies that report to the group.

But it's just like that kind of transparency.

I think, yeah, that openness.

I think it goes a long way.

So do you think that's a fear of criticism?

Like a fear of being wrong or a fear of, you know what I'm saying?

Is that what you're thinking?

Right.

And he talks about sort of some of the not so good memories, like some of the things that have happened where they were really bloody outcomes. And Congress got involved and said, hey, you need to figure this out. And so they ended up, they ended up changing their approach. So instead of going in and just talking at people and

trying to pigeonhole them and make them fearful, right? Yeah, I think if you understand each

other, you might not always agree and you might find out that you don't agree and you have to

take some sort of confrontation, but I think that

that a lot of things will go more smoothly if you understand other people and can see from their

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