The reason that I think U.S. officials really on both sides of the aisle have been concerned

about China is that there is no reciprocity in our relationship, right?

You even just look at big tech companies, right?

TikTok, last time I checked, is still one of the most, if not the most used apps amongst

American teenagers, right?

And yet American software and social media companies are largely banned for the Chinese market.

I'm Ricky Mulvey, and that's Edward Fishman.

He's the author of Choke Points, American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare.

Fishman now teaches at Columbia

University's School of International and Public Affairs, but previously, he served at the U.S.

Department of State working on economic sanctions against foreign adversaries. What a time for a chat

with him on Motley Full Money. My colleague Mary Long caught up with him to discuss his book,

the history of America's trade dispute with China, the weapons other than tariffs that countries

have in an economic war, and new questions about the U.S. dollar is a risk-free asset.

Your book essentially opens with a prediction in the intro that I truly, upon reading it,

I wrote in the margins, called it exclamation point.

You wrote, economic warfare, now the baseline feature of our world, will permeate other areas

of foreign policy, global economics, domestic politics, and business, the result will

be a scramble for economic security that redraws the geopolitical map and ends globalization as we

know it. That's the end of the quote. Again, road in the margins called it, because that sounds

about right. As on the nose, as that prediction seems to be, there's also a lot of

uncertainty that kind of comes in this current moment that we're at. So from where you're sitting,

...