Pushkin.

It's hard to read the news these days without asking yourself, how did we get here?

Fiasco is a history podcast for the co-creators of Slow Burn.

In our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examine an unmistakable turning point in American politics, the 2000 election, which resulted in a high-stakes stalemate, ended with one of the most controversial rulings in Supreme Court history.

So if you're trying to make sense at the present moment, check out Fiasco, Bush v. Gore. Listen on theHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

From Pushkin Industries, this is deep background, the show where we explore the stories behind

the stories in the news. I'm Noah Feldman. Welcome to the latest installment and the last of our Freedom of Speech mini-series.

Just yesterday we heard from Eugene Wallach, a professor at UCLA School of Law. Today we're going

to hear from another staunch defender of freedom of speech, but one who is coming at the issue

from almost the opposite place on the political spectrum. Nadine Strassen was the president of the American Civil Liberties Union

for almost two decades up until 2008.

She was the first woman and the youngest person ever to lead the organization.

She's now a professor at New York Law School.

I spoke to Nadine back in October when the world was very different,

and yet we were wrestling with a lot of the same issues. Nadine, I want to start with hate speech

because after a long career of focusing on all aspects of freedom of expression, you wrote a book

recently called Hate, Why We Should

Resist It With Free Speech, Not Censorship, which is, I think, an appropriately provocative

and controversial title. So what do you mean when you say hate speech? There are lots of different

definitions out there. The core of the concept is speech that conveys hateful, discriminatory, stereotyped ideas, particularly

on bases such as race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, groups that have traditionally

been marginalized or excluded. But if you look at how we use the term in everyday parlance in the United States,

...