Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps that it's a long time ago, right?

It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream van plays music when it's out of ice cream.

Listen to Evil Genius on BBC Sounds.

This is the BBC.

Hello, I'm Philip Dodd, and welcome to this podcast of Radio 3's Arts and Ideas program Freethinking.

Unhappy is the land that needs heroes.

Well, we'll test this belief to destruction across this program with comedians, an actor, a playwright and a historian.

The great and terrifying Protestant theologian John Knox meets and clashes

with the Catholic Mary Stewart in a new play, who is Scotland's hero.

And two comedians and a historian talk about speaking truth to power.

Are those that do so heroes?

But we begin with Bertolt Brecht, who has two plays in London at present, Arturo Oui,

and Life of Galileo, the second of which we sent the actor Fiona Shaw and the playwright Mark Ravenhill to watch. Wake up, man, you're seeing something no one has ever seen before. They were correct. Who were the Copernicus? Yes, and the one they burned. The whole world was against them, but they were correct. I want Andrea to see this. Mrs. Sarty! Calm yourself, Galileo! Ocigrido, excite yourself!

Don't just stand there like a dummy!

The truth has been found. I'm trembling with fear that it may be the truth. Explain yourself. Are you out of your mind? Do you know what will happen if what you see there is true? And you go around yelling, the sun is a star and the earth travels round it? And that the universe full of stars doesn't travel round and round our tiny, tiny little earth.

Brendan Cowell and Paul Hunter tiny, tiny little earth.

Brendan Cowell and Paul Hunter and Joe Wright's production of Life of Galileo.

Now once upon a time, during the Cold War Brecht,

born it's worth remembering in the 19th century,

was at the eye of a storm when his name became synonymous with art meets politics.

Now, after the end of the Cold War, well, as he just dwindled to being another classic modern playwright,

well, heroism is at the heart of life of Galileo, Brecht's 1938 play.

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