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Thoughts on the Market

Finding Opportunity in an Uncertain U.S. Equity Market

Thoughts on the Market

Morgan Stanley

Markets, Macro, Investing, Fixed Income, Equities, Business, Economics, Strategy, Alternatives, Global

4.81.3K Ratings

🗓️ 18 February 2025

⏱️ 5 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Our CIO and Chief U.S. Equity Strategy Mike Wilson suggests that stock, factor and sector selection remain key to portfolio performance.


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----- Transcript -----


Hi, I’m Andrew Sheets, Head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley. 

Before we get into today’s episode, the team behind Thoughts on the Market wants your thoughts and your input.  

Fill out our listener survey and help us make this podcast even more valuable for you. The link is in the show notes.

Plus, help us help the Feeding America organization. For every survey completed, Morgan Stanley will donate $25 towards their important work.

Thanks for your time and the support. On to the show…

 

Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley’s CIO and Chief US Equity Strategist. Today on the podcast I’ll be discussing equities in the context of higher rates and weaker earnings revisions. 

It's Tuesday, Feb 18th at 11:30am in New York. 

So let’s get after it.

Since early December, the S&P 500 has made little headway. The almost unimpeded run from the summer was halted by a few things but none as important as the rise in 10-year Treasury yields, in my view. In December, we cited 4 to 4.5 percent as the sweet spot for equity multiples assuming growth and earnings remained on track. We viewed 4.5 percent as a key level for equity valuations. And sure enough, when the Fed leaned less dovish at its December meeting, yields crossed that 4.5 percent threshold; and correlations between stocks and yields settled firmly in negative territory, where they remain. In other words, yields are no longer supportive of higher valuations—a key driver of returns the past few years. 

Instead, earnings are now the primary driver of returns and that is likely to remain the case for the foreseeable future. While the Fed was already increasingly less dovish, the uncertainty on tariffs and last week’s inflation data could further that shift with the bond market moving to just one cut for the rest of the year. Our official call is in line with that view with our economists now just looking for just one cut–in June. It depends on how the inflation and growth data roll in. 

Our strategy has shifted, too. With the S&P 500 reaching our tactical target of 6100 in December and earnings revision breadth now rolling over for the index, we have been more focused on sectors and factors. In particular, we’ve favored areas of the market showing strong earnings revisions on an absolute or relative basis.

Financials, Media and Entertainment, Software over Semiconductors and Consumer Services over Goods continue to fit that bill. Within Defensives, we have favored Utilities over Staples, REITs and Healthcare. While we’ve seen outperformance in all these trades, we are sticking with them, for now. We maintain an overriding preference for Large-cap quality unless 10-year Treasury yields fall sustainably below 4.5 percent without a meaningful degradation in growth. The key component of 10-year yields to watch for equity valuations remains the term premium – which has come down, but is still elevated compared to the past few years. 

Other macro developments driving stock prices include the very active policy announcements from the White House including tariffs, immigration enforcement, and cost cutting efforts by the Department of Government Efficiency, also known as DOGE. For tariffs, we believe they will be more of an idiosyncratic event for equity markets. However, if tariffs were to be imposed and maintained on China, Mexico and Canada through 2026, the impact to earnings-per-share would be roughly 5-7 percent for the S&P 500. That’s not an insignificant reduction and likely one of the reasons why guidance this past quarter was more muted than fourth quarter results. 

Industries facing greater headwinds from China tariffs include consumer discretionary goods and electronics. Lower immigration flow and stock is more likely to affect aggregate demand than to be a wage cost headwind, at least for public companies. Finally, skepticism remains high as it relates to DOGE’s ability to cut Federal spending meaningfully. I remain more optimistic on that front, but realize greater success also presents a headwind to growth before it provides a tailwind via lower fiscal deficits and less crowding out of the private economy—things that could lead to more Fed cuts and lower long-term interest rates as term premium falls. 

Bottom line, higher backend rates and growth headwinds from the stronger dollar and the initial policy changes suggest equity multiples are capped for now. That means stock, factor and sector selection remains key to performance rather than simply adding beta to one’s portfolio. On that score, we continue to favor earnings revision breadth, quality, and size factors alongside financials, software, media/entertainment and consumer services at the industry level.  

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the podcast, leave us a review wherever you listen, and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hi, I'm Andrew Sheets, head of corporate credit research at Morgan Stanley.

0:05.0

Before we get to today's episode, the team behind thoughts of the market wants your thoughts

0:09.7

and your input. Fill out our listener survey and help us make this podcast even more valuable

0:15.1

to you. The link is in the show notes. Plus, help us help the Feeding America organization.

0:20.7

For every survey completed,

0:22.7

Morgan Stanley will donate $25 towards their important work. Thanks for your time and the support.

0:29.3

On to the show. Welcome with thoughts on the market. I'm Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley CIO, and Chief

0:34.8

U.S. Equity Strategist. Today on the podcast, I'll be discussing

0:38.2

equities in the context of higher rates and weaker earnings revisions. It's Tuesday, February 18th,

0:44.8

and 1130 a.m. in New York. So let's get after it. Since early December, the S&P 500 has made

0:52.4

little headway. The almost unimpeded run from the summer

0:55.7

was halted by a few things, but none as important as the rise in 10-year treasury yields, in my view.

1:02.0

In December, we cited 4 to 4.5% as the sweet spot for equity multiples, assuming growth and

1:07.4

earnings remained on track. We viewed 4.5% as a key level for equity valuations.

1:13.3

And sure enough, when the Fed leaned less dovish at its December meeting, yields crossed that

1:18.2

4.5% threshold and correlations between stocks and yields settled firmly in negative territory

1:24.0

where they remain. In other words, yields are no longer supportive of higher valuations,

1:29.2

a key driver of returns the past few years. Instead, earnings are now the primary driver of returns,

1:35.2

and that is likely to remain a case for the foreseeable future. While the Fed was already increasingly

1:40.3

less devish, the uncertainty on tariffs and last week's inflation data could further

1:45.1

that shift with the bond market moving to just one cut for the rest of the year. Our official call

1:50.4

is in line with that view, with our economists now looking for just one cut in June. It depends on

...

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