Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's The Wall Builders Show on Foundations of Freedom Thursday.

Still taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective, but you get to pick the topic. So send those questions to us. Radio at wallbuilders.com. That's

Radio at wallbuilders.com. We're agreeing here with David and Tim Barton. All tough questions

get tossed to them. Any easy ones I might try to knock it out before I toss it to them.

Okay. So first up, let's see. We've got a common question here. Much is said and written about

the fact that Thomas Jefferson kept slaves, including some that he fathered, as in the case with many national historical sites during tours of Monticello. There seems to be an emphasis on this subject to discredit Jefferson and other founders of our nation. Most of the information I find on the internet on Jefferson emphasizes his keeping of slaves. Conversely,

while I understand that as a contributor to early drafts to the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson opposed slavery, this is rarely covered when he's discussed. Are there references available

that provide a complete picture? Good, bad, and ugly on Thomas Jefferson, including links

that could be shared when debating this subject. Thanks for taking time to read this. Appreciate all that you do, David, Tim and Rick. Regards. Okay, so guys, I think somebody wrote an entire book on this. I'm trying to remember who that guy was. He had an interesting title for it. Something about Jefferson Lies, and he was with some masonry company. You know, they built walls.

Who was that guy?

Well, now you're going to make people think of the founding fathers being masons, and now we're going to have a whole different myth to dispel. Yes, that's next week, everybody. Send those questions in, masonry and the founding fathers. How do you think about that, Tim? You're right. Okay, so this guy that started this thing called wallbuilders, His name's David Barton, and I think probably the most controversial.

You've written a ton of books, David, but this one is, would you say this is the most controversial? The one you got the most pushback and created the most debate over the Jefferson lies where you address everything that this listener was asking about.

Yeah, I think we addressed all that, and we addressed it out of Jefferson's writings and those by contemporaries around him who knew him best, not by the progressive modernists that write about him today who don't like him. So we went back to original sources,

and that's what the controversy was, because it reshaped the narrative away from what progressives

have made him in the last 50, 60 years particularly.

So even going back to 1999, when they came up with the DNA report that says Jefferson did it,

he fathered slaves with Sally Hemings, and the DNA report did not say that.

So it really took a beating.

It did not take a beating.

I took a beating for having written that at the time, but the book has stood up, and now there's a lot of other academics that have joined that chorus saying,

no, Jefferson was not that. There's no evidence that Jefferson had slave children with

Sally Hemmings, et cetera, et cetera. So there's so much there that pushes back. But if you get that

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