Hello, and welcome to another special audio interview with Emlex. I'm Madeline Hughes, the DC-based

data privacy and security reporter for Emlex, and I'm speaking to you from Washington, D.C.

Today, my conversation is with Francis Howgan, the former Facebook product manager who left the company

in 2021, with a treasure trove of documents from the company about how it handled misinformation and

children's privacy issues. I met Hogan late last year at a conference in D.C. where we discussed

how those documents have since been used to inspire lawmakers' policy proposals, and that there

are now more than 40 state attorney general lawsuits and hundreds of other lawsuits filed

by individuals

in school districts, alleging design features chosen by Facebook and Instagram allegedly harmed

children. Since Howgan first came forward as the whistleblower, with thousands of documents from Facebook,

she's been working to help hold the social media company accountable through her nonprofit

beyond the screen by documenting how social media company accountable through her nonprofit beyond the screen

by documenting how social media companies can uphold their ethical obligations.

Hogan agreed to speak with me from her home in Puerto Rico about the current regulatory

landscape for social media companies and how she hopes they can evolve to do better.

My conversation with Hogan begins with us going back to how it

all began, with her choosing to come forward and blow the whistle on Facebook. So I never intended

on being a named whistleblower. Part of the reason why the disclosures are so large is that I

wanted them to be able to stand on their own. And it was really only in like the couple of months before the Wall Street Journal started publishing

that my lawyers were just really, really direct with me.

And they were like, you know, we respect whatever choice you make,

but you need to not be deluding yourself about like what you are getting or not getting

...