EXTRA: Bill Binney and Ladar Levison Talk Cryptography

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4.7 • 2.7K Ratings

🗓️ 29 October 2014

⏱️ 26 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

This is the raw interview used in our episode "The Other Ed Snowdens" with William Binney and Ladar Levison. In that podcast episode we said the conversation got wonky and in the weeds so we cut out some of the most detailed debate about NSA surveillance and crystallographic options. Well, here is that part of the conversation.

If you missed that episode, give it a listen. Bill Binney worked for more than 30 years at the NSA and designed the architecture for programs the NSA later used to spy on American citizens. When he found out, he quit the agency and went public about it. Call him the pre-Snowden NSA whistleblower.

Ladar Levison ran the secure email program Ed Snowden used to communicate with Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. When the FBI came to him asking for the keys to the encryption he decided to shut down his company rather than comply. That dramatic story is told in our episode "When the FBI Knocks."

After you listen to this bonus segment of New Tech City, let us know how you want us to keep the conversation going. Post a comment, we'll get the message. Or get in touch on Twitter @newtechcity or at newtechcity at WNYC.org

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi friends, Manouche Zemarote here, the host of New Text City.
0:04.2	We've got a little something special for you.
0:06.6	Last week on the podcast, I talked to Ladar Levison and Bill Binney about privacy and
0:11.4	paranoia.
0:12.7	We called them the other Ed Snowden's because they each, personally, stood up to the US
0:17.9	government to fight for your privacy, whether you asked for it or not.
0:22.3	Pretty incredible stories from the guy who built the encrypted email service that Ed Snowden
0:27.1	actually used.
0:28.7	And the NSA's top coder who quit after 9-11 when he saw that his algorithms were being
0:34.0	used to track Americans.
0:36.4	So check out the podcast if you haven't yet.
0:39.1	If you already listened to that episode, then you also heard me say, just email us if you
0:44.3	want the wonky parts of this conversation, the parts that got edited out.
0:48.4	Well, dozens of you emailed us.
0:51.1	Dozens.
0:52.1	And so here are Ladar and Bill uncut.
0:55.7	When you put two of the world's top encryption experts in a room together, this is where
1:00.5	the discussion goes.
1:02.8	So Bill, if a regular person decides after seeing you in citizen 4 and Ladar, this documentary,
1:09.1	if they decide they want to start living the private life, where would you tell them to
1:13.4	start?
1:14.4	I would say you could take a PGP or anything else, any encryption that's on the open
	...

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