This episode is brought to you by National Rail. Would you rather go with the flow or have

everything pre-planned out? Sometimes it pays to pre-plan. Get savings on your train tickets

when you book ahead. Advanced tickets are available as early as 12 weeks before departure.

Book an advance to get the best deals on train tickets. That's everyday savings.

Terms and conditions apply.

In the world, I'm John Bacheler. Eugene Debs candidate for the presidency in 1920.

Eugene Debs, a man identified with the wobbly, the international workers of the world.

A man identified with socialism in America. In 1918, Eugene Debs, extremely well-known in the

newspapers. Much attendance at his speeches. He had a golden tub. This was the age of

William Jennings-Brayan. The men could speak without microphone. With that adlification,

they were magical. Well, in 1918, the US is at war. And Eugene Debs makes a speech

recommending in Canton, Ohio that his audience resists the draft. That is right. Resists the draft.

He says the war is a product of capitalism distortion and that do not, do not in any fashion regard

this is patriotism to fight for the capitalist. He is arrested later that month. He's tried

by the Wilson administration using the law called the Espinoge Act. He's convicted after a golden

speech for two hours in the courtroom and sentenced to 10 years in jail. That does not stop

Eugene Debs from speaking out. In a 1920, he's a candidate for the presidency as he had been in 1912.

I mention all this because I welcome Richard Epstein of the Hoover Institution, who in

recent conversations with his colleagues, reminds all of us that in the event that the former president

Mr. Trump is arrested and convicted and jailed. There is precedent to run for the presidency

from a jail cell. And Eugene Debs in 1912, 1 6% of the vote. And this is before women widely voted.

In 1920, he won less than that, but certainly enough votes, 919,000, to impress anybody at that

...