Ted Audio Collective

Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking, my podcast on the

Science of What Makes Us Take. I'm an organizational psychologist and I'm

taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and

new ways of thinking.

My guest today is Kaya Kallas. She's the Prime Minister of Estonia, the first

woman ever to hold the role. Previously she was a member of European Parliament

and a partner in a law firm. She's gained international recognition for her

strong stance against Russian aggression and she's also one of the wisest, most

unscripted leaders I've ever met inside or outside politics.

What should I call you during the conversation? Prime Minister?

You can call me Kaya as well because we know personally. We are very equal

society so you can call me by my first name. I don't need any titles.

That's very egalitarian of you. Yeah, it is. This is how we function here but

if it is for you, what is more convenient? Well, I'm happy to do whatever you

consider comfortable and respectful. Yeah, because I think the topic is not

it's on one side or so the work but it's more like the leadership issues.

So it's okay if you call me by my first name. All right. Well, I appreciate

that and if you want to restate anything or clarify anything we can do

multiple takes. No, it's better when we do it spontaneously as it comes.

Normally, I feel like most of the political leaders I've interviewed over the

years have been very scripted and very on message and I love your candor.

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