Hello, my name is Claire Lehman and I am editor and chief of Quilette.

Quilette is where Freethought lives.

We are an independent grassroots platform for heterodox ideas and fearless commentary.

If you would like to support Quilet, please consider becoming a patron.

Head to our Patreon page, that's Patreon.com forward slash quillet.

Our podcast is a team effort and is jointly hosted by myself,

Associate Editor Toby Young, and Canadian editor Jonathan Kay.

I hope you enjoy listening to today's discussion.

One of the issues we return to in Quilat again and again is the politics of race and diversity, often challenging the prevailing

orthodoxy of the identitarian left.

I recently talked to two people who've thought deeply about the complexities of race and diversity.

Eric Kaufman, a professor of politics at Birkbeck College and Ben Coppley, a journalist.

Eric is a Quilett contributor and the author of White Shift, a forthcoming book about the changing racial

composition of Europe and America and its impact on white identity. And Ben has just

published a book called Tribes about the capture of a number of key British institutions by social justice

warrior liberals including the Civil Service, the BBC and the Labour Party.

Helen Dale recently reviewed tribes for Colette and described it as one of the best analyses of the fraught nature of identity politics she'd ever read.

I spoke to Eric and Ben at the offices of The Spectator, where I'm also an associate editor in London.

Eric Kaufman, Ben Coppley, welcome to the Colette Podcast.

It's great to have you on as guests.

I want to ask you to begin by telling us a little bit about yourselves and about the books.

The book in your case, Ben, that you've just published

...