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The National Security Law Podcast

Episode 88: A Deep Dive into the Anwar al-Awlaki Case(s)

The National Security Law Podcast

Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck

Courses, Politics, News, Education, Government

4.8646 Ratings

🗓️ 28 August 2018

⏱️ 72 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

We are back this week with a new "deep dive" episode, this time focused on the issues raised by the U.S. government's use of lethal force against Anwar al-Awlaki--a U.S. citizen who became a key figure associated with al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.  Tune in for a detailed backgrounder covering: the unsuccessful attempt by al-Awlaki's father to obtain ex ante injunctive relief in federal court (and the standing, political question doctrine, and state-secrets privilege issues that suit raised) the unsuccessful attempt by his father to obtain Bivens damages after a drone strike killed al-Awlaki the "white paper" the Justice Department produced to give a sense of its position on the merits as to when it is constitutional and otherwise lawful to use lethal force against a citizen in this context, and the Second Circuit's determination that the government had largely waived privilege as to the OLC memorandum underlying that white paper (and the disincentive this created for further white papers, speeches, and the like regarding internal legal advice/positions) the merits of the arguments as set forth in that white paper (Fourth Amendment seizures and Fifth Amendment Due Process, criminal laws prohibiting overseas killing of citizens, and the Executive Order prohibiting "assassination") In short, this episode covers a wide-array of topics.  One could teach a whole course in national security law based in no small part on just these topics. Note: there will be no separate episode this week or next regarding events since the morning of Tuesday August 21st (aka, pre-Cohen plea).  Steve is traveling, so he and Bobby pre-recorded this deep dive episode as well as next week's (episode 89) in advance.  We'll be back with a "regular" episode (episode 90) on or about Thursday September 6.  One can only imagine what will have transpired by then; both your co-hosts will be commenting via Twitter all the while, of course, so be sure to follow them at @steve_vladeck and @bobbychesney.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello from Austin and welcome to episode 88 of the National Security Law podcast, brought to you by the Shrouse Center at the University of Texas.

0:18.7

I was about to say what day it is, Steve, but I'm having trouble. Can you help me out?

0:23.1

Well, we're recording this on Friday, August 17th, but I suspect that most of the people who are

0:27.5

listening to it are listening to it no earlier than the week of August 27th because we're trying

0:32.8

this weird thing where we bank an episode. Steve, does that mean this is another deep dive dive alert, deep dive alert.

0:40.6

We got, we should have had a sound effect set up for this, some kind of submarine, you know.

0:44.6

That would require preparation.

0:45.8

Yeah, we don't do that.

0:46.6

But so just sort of, I mean, we come apparent.

0:48.5

We, we, we, we're actually, we're recording this both before actually episode 87.

0:53.0

How's that for mind-boggling but also with

0:56.1

complete disregard to potential developments that have transpired in the last few days that you all tuned

1:01.9

in anxious to hear our comments and reflection upon you're just going to have to wait until i get back from

1:07.1

vacation sorry yeah if uh if so if by the time you're listening to this,

1:11.4

some, some horrible, I'm sure something horrible will be happening. Yeah. Something that it's outrageous

1:15.4

we're not commenting on. Right. We don't actually know. Like, is, is, is Bob Mueller still the

1:19.3

special counsel, you know, is, I don't know, are the Mets still in fourth place? I mean, all kinds of crazy things could happen. Some of these things are more likely than others.

1:27.7

So, Bobby, why don't you tell folks what this deep dive is about, since now they're probably

1:31.1

wondering if it's worth, you know, continuing to listen to this out-of-time episode 88, which, by the way,

1:36.5

if you're going to have an episode out of time, 88's a good number for it, because that's the speed at which the Dolorian can travel through time. Oh, my God, that is so good.

1:45.5

Now, if only we had...

1:46.5

Which felt fast to me when I was, like, when I was young enough to appreciate back to the future,

...

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