I'm excited to be having a conversation with someone, when they have that revelation.

It's making sure.

Maybe looking at this case, it could be an interesting process.

Okay.

From One World Trade Center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production

of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Today on the show, I'll talk with

the writer Juno Diaz about his fiction and about his fierce criticism of the Dominican Republic where he was born.

And we'll meet the toughest of women, a boxer who relishes combat so much that she fought a professional match with no prize money to fight for.

The undefeated Heather Hardy talks with the New Yorkers, Kelifassane, later this hour.

We're going to start with another tough-minded soul in a very different line of combat, Jane Mayer.

Jane is an investigative reporter par excellence.

She's covered everything from the Clarence Thomas hearings to the use of torture to dark money in politics.

And in recent years, she's been researching the Koch brothers, the conservative activists who are the seventh and eighth richest Americans.

Charles and David Koch, who have underwritten so many political campaigns before, sat out

Donald Trump's campaign. But now a number of their allies have found their way onto Trump's transition team.

And so the Kochs are bound to be jockeying for influence in the new administration.

Back in 2010, Jane wrote an article about the Koch's funding of the Tea Party, claiming

that the Koch brothers and some other wealthy backers were pulling the strings of that

populist movement. And as Jane was burrowing away in her reporting, she started to notice that

something very odd was happening. I began to get warnings from a number of people who'd worked for

Coke industries, who I wanted to interview, that I better be careful. And, you know,

...