These are just anecdotes, but it's building up into something more coherent.

I think it'd be interesting to really try to unravel what his ties.

There's this sort of country city divide for their inconvenient, and it's not clear where it goes next.

From One World Trade Center in Manhattan, this is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production

of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.

Today I'm going to catch up with the writer Zadie Smith to talk about her new novel and the

state of the novel in general. And we'll have a

brief word about Thanksgiving dinner, or rather a word from Thanksgiving dinner. We're going to

start, though, in Washington where the known world is an absolute turmoil. Democrats are trying to figure

out a strategy to create themselves as almost as a resistance

movement, and the Republican establishment is scrambling to regain whatever influence it has left.

Being a Washington insider in the age of Trump just got a lot more complicated and complicated

for people like David Frum. Frum has gold standard credentials as a neocon.

He was a speechwriter for George W. Bush credited with inventing the term the axis of evil.

And he's done work for the Manhattan Institute and the Weekly Standard.

But those are exactly the kind of conservative institutions that Trump's campaign, and now his transition team, is treating with a degree of contempt.

And David Frum, in the end, voted for Hillary Clinton.

David, you've been very skeptical about the direction of the Republican Party for a long time now.

I've been reading you in

the Atlantic and articles elsewhere, where you've been very worried about the course that

conservatism has taken, particularly within the GOP. And Trump has had you worried for a long

...